{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/iiif/3j3901zx8n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["James Nathan Jones oral history, 2002 April 6"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eTranscript is incomplete.\u003c/p\u003e (Scope and Contents)","\u003cp\u003eJames Nathan Jones (b. 1935) is a singer who performed with the Municipal Opera Company of Baltimore and the Metropolitan Opera touring company. He received a bachelor's and a master's degree from Morgan State University, where he wrote a thesis in 1978 titled \"Alfred Jack Thomas (1884-1962): Musician, Composer, Educator.\" In this interview, Jones discusses his research on Thomas, his musical education with Robert Earl Anderson, his family's involvement in the Pennsylvania Avenue musical scene in the 1950s, and his experience with the Municipal Opera Company.\u003c/p\u003e (Abstract)","\u003cp\u003ePoor audio quality and low levels present on source media, especially tape 1. Tape 2 contains silence from 0:35 to 19:05. Ending of interview cut off on both tapes. Tape 3 (presented here as the first media file in this resource) is a partial copy of tapes 1-2 and has better audio quality.\u003c/p\u003e (Physical description)","\u003cp\u003eThe collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information.\u003c/p\u003e (Conditions Governing Access)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2002-04-06 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Jones, James Nathan, 1935- (Interviewee)","Koo, Julia (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mpeg"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSingle copies may be made for research purposes. Researchers are responsible for determining any copyright questions. It is not necessary to seek our permission as the owner of the physical work to publish or otherwise use public domain materials that we have made available for use, unless Johns Hopkins University holds the copyright. All requests for permission to publish or perform materials in this collection must be submitted in writing to the archivist of the Arthur Friedheim Library. More information about use of digital assets can be found at \u003ca href=\"https://musiclibrary.peabody.jhu.edu/home/duplication\"\u003ehttps://musiclibrary.peabody.jhu.edu/home/duplication\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://aspace.library.jhu.edu/repositories/4/archival_objects/215366"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Thomas, A. Jack, 1884-1962 (Person or Corporate Bod)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Collection"]},"value":{"en":["Sounds and Stories collection"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eTranscript is incomplete.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eJames Nathan Jones (b. 1935) is a singer who performed with the Municipal Opera Company of Baltimore and the Metropolitan Opera touring company. He received a bachelor's and a master's degree from Morgan State University, where he wrote a thesis in 1978 titled \"Alfred Jack Thomas (1884-1962): Musician, Composer, Educator.\" In this interview, Jones discusses his research on Thomas, his musical education with Robert Earl Anderson, his family's involvement in the Pennsylvania Avenue musical scene in the 1950s, and his experience with the Municipal Opera Company.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003ePoor audio quality and low levels present on source media, especially tape 1. Tape 2 contains silence from 0:35 to 19:05. Ending of interview cut off on both tapes. Tape 3 (presented here as the first media file in this resource) is a partial copy of tapes 1-2 and has better audio quality.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThe collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSingle copies may be made for research purposes. Researchers are responsible for determining any copyright questions. It is not necessary to seek our permission as the owner of the physical work to publish or otherwise use public domain materials that we have made available for use, unless Johns Hopkins University holds the copyright. All requests for permission to publish or perform materials in this collection must be submitted in writing to the archivist of the Arthur Friedheim Library. More information about use of digital assets can be found at \u003ca href=\"https://musiclibrary.peabody.jhu.edu/home/duplication\"\u003ehttps://musiclibrary.peabody.jhu.edu/home/duplication\u003c/a\u003e.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/161/794/small/open-uri20220707-508-mwjojr?1657213384","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 4 - open-uri20220707-508-utstx0.mpga"]},"duration":4906.24,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/161/794/small/open-uri20220707-508-mwjojr?1657213384","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/161/794/original/open-uri20220707-508-utstx0.mpga?1657213384","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4906.24,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["JonesJames_3_OHMS_20220729 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES JONES: I remember one time with the quartet we sang in a place on Fremont Avenue, it\nwas called the Wagon Wheel. Anyway it was a club. And we were old enough to sing\nin it, but we weren't supposed to drink in it. So we got up on the stage and\nsang our songs in close harmony, and everybody was digging it, you know, as they\nsaid in those days. And there was a door cracked open, and there was an alleyway\nin the back of the club, and I peeked and looked. And I saw\n\nthese men coming with satchels of money on a card table. Just piles of money.\nYou know what it was?\n\nJULIA KOO: No.\n\nJAMES JONES: It was the illegal -- then -- lottery. The numbers they used to\ncall it. People would pick a number, and then if you got it, the man was\nsupposed to come around and pay you off. Well, now, it was illegal then. They\nwould put the people in jail for doing it, because the government couldn't get\ntax off it. Now it's legal, and I don't play it. Because those people were\nmaking a living at this.\n\nJULIA KOO: Right.\n\nJAMES JONES: Sometimes people would go awry. Man wouldn't show up to pay you the\nmoney and skip town. And his name was mud after that. Because when he stepped\nback in town, somebody would usually do physical harm to him.\n\nGetting back to what Black singers had to go through: Like now, they have the\nBillie Holiday contests. They used to have the Black and beautiful contests. One\ntime I called up on a fund raising radio show, it was last year, and I talked to\nthe female conductor of the Baltimore Symphony. And I asked her, I gave her a\nquestion: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=0.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, why can't they integrate the Black musicians, the Duke\nEllingtons, for the present conductor? She said, oh well, it would take too much\nto copy the music. Which to me is balderdash. Because when we went up to Paul\nWhiteman years ago, we would go up and sing, just with the harmonies we had. The\npianist would be playing, and if we made a transition to keys. It was my uncle's\nmusical arrangements, when he went to the veteran's school, he was doing all\nthis with us, with the quartet. Okay, that night, there was a full orchestration\nfor the orchestra. So what she told me was really not...\n\nJULIA KOO: Right.\n\nJAMES JONES: Now they just realized they got Asian composers. Okay. You know, I\nmean does an Italian feel anymore for a love song that an Asian person who has a\nloved one? So it's still a little mixed foolishness going on. Take you for your\ntalent. I don't want you just because you're an Asian. If you have the talent to\ndo it, I shouldn't have to make you up. But they can't understand that a\nCaucasian can't fall in love with an Asian person, or a Black person can't fall\nin love with a Caucasian person or Asian person. They're still back into the\n'40s and '20s. Ethnic people will not integrate people into their background. I\nknow this.\n\nThe children left in Korea weren't accepted by most of the Korean folks there.\nOr in Vietnam rarely, they didn't accept the mixed. They call it the devil. So\nit's a human problem of this society.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=120.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we used to sing, we had a mayor [Theodore McKeldin] that used to come to\nthe Back churches for speeches. And I used to sing in the choir.\n\nJULIA KOO: What was his name?\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh, it will come to me. Wonderful man. I used to talk to him when\ngoing to work at the post office down at Central, and meet him in a bookstore\ndown on Baltimore Street. And we would converse for almost twenty minutes. He\ndidn't mind touching your hands. He wasn't even in the office or wasn't even\nrunning for office. He would talk to you.\n\nAnd we sang in a church with the choir, with the Baltimore Boys' Choir, he\nwouldn't leave until we were through singing all the songs. That's what I see, a\nhuman politician, not only when it's election. When it's no election. I don't\nsee that now. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=240.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I see a lot of foolishness and a lot of facades, as well as the\nBaltimore School System being -- I came through the Baltimore School System, and\nthey had good teachers. There's something wrong with it. Why are they trying to\nadvance these children out? They know they got a problem maybe with home life.\nSome of the parents are on dope, and the kids have a physical problem. Why are\nthey trying to ruin the public school system? And now even the private school\nsystem wants money, my tax money.\n\nAnd my advisor's name was Dominique-Rene de Lerma. Told me what are you going to\nwrite about? And I said I'll write about the bandmaster, A. Jack Thomas, which\nyou were reading there. They had, after the war, Second World War, a veteran's\nschool for basically Blacks. There was a man named Dr. Herman Schwarz, came from Germany, and\nI thought he was wonderful -- taught at Peabody, but I'm not sure. Was one of\nthe main people, one of the main teachers. All white hair. Fabulous musician.\n\nTheodore McKeldin was his name, was the governor, was the--\n\nJULIA KOO: Mayor.\n\nJAMES JONES: Mayor. He became a governor one time, then he was a mayor, and he\nwas a Republican. But the man was not prejudiced. He was not a cellophane\npolitician. Polyester I'll say, that's the word I want to use. You see them on\ntelevision, even that pseudo president. I'm sorry, I mean, the man got into an\noffice. I don't want to politicize this thing. It's pseudo. Pseudo means, want\nto be like, supposed to be like. It's the biggest joke in the world.\n\nIt's like when they wouldn't accept you into Peabody or University of Maryland.\nYou had to go to, one of my advisers in high school, I used to go down to the\npost office to go to work, she was standing outside the bus station. I said:\nWhat are you doing down here? And she said: I'm going up to New York University\nworking on my masters. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=360.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She couldn't work on it at the University of Maryland.\n\nNow this is a lucky country. Not because it's supposed to be democratic; and I\nsay supposed. Because nobody has really started really fighting back to the\npoint where they could devastate the whole system. Like is happening in\nPalestine, which is horrible. Take my tax money and give it to people with all\nthe information to kill somebody, and then justify it. And then wait until they\nalmost devastate the people, and then say: don't you fight back.\n\nMy grandmother used to tell me be careful when you walk out on the street. We\nhad all white policemen. We had some good white policemen, but we had some nasty\nones. One year, when I was young -- you familiar with the Afro [Afro-American],\nthe Black newspaper?\n\nJULIA KOO: Yeah.\n\nJAMES JONES: It used to be called the Legend as well, got a lot of Black\ninformation. They were shooting a Black kid in the back every other week running\ndown the street for target practice. And I've seen policemen, when I was\nyounger, you weren't supposed to shoot dice. It was in a school yard, School 122\nwhere I went. Some guys over there [were] shooting dice on a Sunday and I'll\nnever forget it. And I was always aware of what it's supposed to be, as a child\nI was always curious. And I looked up there -- and this happened to be a white\npoliceman (that was all they had on the force) -- walked up there, saw them\nshooting dice, which was illegal, [he] took his gun out and shot in the air.\nThey all ran, left their dice and their money and everything. He went over there\nlaughing. Picked the money up, put it in his pocket, threw the dice away, and\nlaughed and walked away.\n\nReality. If you're gonna write an opera, write as close to reality as you can.\nAnd when the curtain comes up, and try to romanticize and say, oh, I want you to\ndo this. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=480.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's what makes a good director, a good writer. If you're gonna write\nthe information, put it down. If society doesn't accept it, put it down anyway.\n'Cause what's less comfortable is just as important as what you put in there.\n\nSo this is what -- the thing that we see -- the experiences that I've had. As\nwell as the young Black minister who didn't want me to sing a spiritual for a\nfuneral in his church. For years, when I started singing classical musical, I\nshied away from the spirituals for some reason. I thought it wasn't on the level\nof classical music. Then, when I went back and start analyzing, don't you know\nthat the spirituals had every rhythmic pattern that you would use in the\nclassics. It's the same notation written for a different subject matter. But\ntechnically, you can learn everything about rhythm you want just singing one of\nthe spirituals that has syncopation and sixteenth notes.\n\nPeople have a habit of putting in those sixteenth notes and running faster. It's\nnot that. I learned that when, in Africa, there's one drummer that plays one\npulse. He doesn't play anything else. He keeps the pulse going. You can\nimprovise around it as fast as you want, but you got to come back to that one pulse.\n\nMy wife and I went to Canada to a festival, a Caribbean festival in the 1970s.\nThey had the longest, at that time, the longest conga line in the Guinness\nrecords. We jumped it, it was fun. But then at the end of it, what they did was\nthey had an African group come in right from Africa, with that bass main drum.\nThis is what they did in Africa in ancient times. He just kept the beat -- boom,\nboom, boom. He didn't deviate. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=600.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He kept the what? The pulse.\n\nPeople around here did it [sings elaborating rhythms]. \"Boom.\" He never\ndeviated. \"Boom, Boom, Boom. That shows you something. No matter what you learn\nat Peabody, when you start learning what the ancients did, it's right there\nbefore you. Okay? It's right there before you. It's all been done before.\n\nSo what I say is, I learn from everyone, even if it's negative. Don't let\nanybody frustrate you. I'm already sixty-seven. Still got a little voice left,\nbecause I don't smoke. I can't stand it.\n\nTell you another story: I was in the car with my uncle, and at the time they\nused to call it reefers. They didn't call it marijuana then. I never did like\nthe smell because I never fooled with it. I tried to smoke when I was eleven. I\nwas repulsed against it. Never went back. I can't stand a cigarette within a\nhundred yards.\n\nAnyway, got in his car. He was going to a gig, they used to call it. He had a\ncouple whites in his group. There's about five of them. Crack musicians, I mean\ncrack musicians. They rolled the windows up, and I was a teenager. They started\nto pull out these cigarettes. I didn't know what they were. Started smoking. I\nhad tears from my eyes. I was sick when I got to the club. And when they got on\nstage, some of them were a little glassy eyed but they were playing.\n\nSee, that stuff doesn't help you to play well. That's just to kill that\nfrustration thing I think. But it doesn't make you play any better. So I tell\nany young musician, stay away from it anyway. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=720.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You can drink now and then, when\nyour system takes it. Don't eat peanuts. I had to tell people that want to learn\nto sing, because for some reason it gravitates toward the [vocal] cords. Oh,\nmisnomer -- not cords, they are folds.\n\nI had a good education at Morgan [State University], because learning about the\nphysiology of the voice, talking, singing, it was like going to medical school.\nI use my books now. You know, the human body is a marvelous system. And for\nsomebody to place that voice and use that air and sustain and sing. That's why I\nsay the Baroque years were more of a challenge than what you're singing now.\n\nNowadays, you got an opera singer, who's got a voice, stand up and look good, so\nthey sing, and just sing. Oh that's wonderful. Yeah, you can make it. They're\nstill picking people. Like Miss Church. Beautiful singer. I know singers here in\nBaltimore who would sing rings around her. But they're not accepted.\n\nJULIA KOO: Miss Church?\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh you know the young lady that came from England to sing. I forget\nwhat her first name. You know, she's a teenager now.\n\nJULIA KOO: Oh, she's a little girl -- Charlotte Church.\n\nJAMES JONES: Yeah. Well, she's not little anymore. And when she sang, she had a\ngorgeous voice. But I have heard people right on this block. It's according to\nyour agent who pushes you. [Andrea] Bocceli's going to sing here. Gorgeous\ninstrument. He's blind, but it doesn't matter. When he opens his mouth, he's like--\n\nNow I got interested in opera -- I didn't tell you the story about Joseph Schmidt.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=840.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He's about 5-foot 5. He's from the Jewish religion. But he wasn't\naccepted because he was too small in\n\nstature. But he would come out and sing. But the people that didn't like the way\nhe looked, they closed their eyes. They would cry.\n\nI got all recordings of the old timers, the light tenors, the dramatic tenors,\nand I heard him sing. And I read about what happened to him. He went all over\nEurope when the Nazis came in. They chased him all over Europe. When they\nfinally got a hold of him, he came out. They asked him, he said I'm a singer,\nand they laughed. Some soldier said, well, sing for me. He walked out. When he\nwalked around the piano, when he was behind the piano, you couldn't see him. He\nopened his mouth, and they just stared. You know how he died? The story was he\nwas in a concentration camp, ill health, and he died.\n\nI got recordings that when I hear I just cry. Fritz Wunderlich is the man I\ncouldn't remember with Madam Duschak we were talking about. Wunderlich, used to\nget recordings of his. He was supposed to sing at the Met. He was in his\nthirties. The story was an opera company was coming through, and he was a baker,\nhe was baking, in this shop. And they heard this gorgeous voice. They went over.\nWhat's that? They sponsored him to go to one of the universities,\nconservatories. He sings so beautifully, I cry when I hear him sing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=960.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I hear certain singers. Gigli, Schipa, Mr. Anderson, my first teacher,\nGod rest his soul, he would beg me and come up, let's go, let's do the opera\ntonight. And he would tell me certain things. Listen to this, listen to that,\nlisten to the other. And he made me aware vocally.\n\nWhen I hear these men singing, the Giglis, the Tagliavinis, Fritz Wunderlich.\nWhen I was with the Metropolitan National Opera Touring Company up in New York\nin 1966-67, they gave us tickets to the dress circle. We could take our scores\nup there. I heard a performance of Aida with Leontyne Price, Robert Merrill,\nCarlo Bergonzi, Grace Bumbry, and Thomas Schippers was the conductor. Getting to\nthe tenors, which I'm interested in, [Bergonzi] sang that aria's high note\npianissimo, the big aria [\"Celeste Aida\"]. He had a standing ovation. There was\nconfusion for twenty minutes. I said a long time. And people said, but why did\nhe hit that like that. Because no other tenor had the control to do it. He hit\nit pianissimo, and Thomas Schippers held the orchestra right under the\npianissimo. And the curtain, and the curtain was slowly coming down. When it\nstopped, there was silence for about a half a minute. Then all hell broke loose.\nThey couldn't understand why. Most tenors will hit it with vibrato, because they\ncan't control the pianissimo. But it's in the score, pianissimo.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1080.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I heard Richard Tucker sing. He sounded better in person than on recording.\nRichard Tucker didn't have a pianissimo. It was almost like matter of fact. I\nheard one night. I said, oh. It wasn't like a Tagliavini, where he had a small\nvoice that just went up like a little boy soprano.\n\nThey don't train people to sing anymore. They train them to make the impression.\nYou got a beautiful voice and do it well. They make recordings and make lots of\nmoney. Fine. That's the capitalistic system. But don't tell me, you look at a\nscore and say, why did he do that? Maybe he couldn't do that. He worked with\nwhat he could get by with. Understand what I'm saying?\n\nWhen you look at the Baroque era, these people, that was the golden era of\nsinging. The men, because they didn't allow the women on the stage, because\n[they had] castrati. I had a recording of the last known castrato. I went to get the record down around Charles Street,\nand somebody was bringing the CD back. She said, oh, it bothers my ear.\n\nSee they were talking about a different technique. Instead of approaching a tone\nfrom the top, they approached it from the bottom. And you could hear this [Mr.\nJones sings], from the top. Hit it, support it, sing it, turn it around, sing\nit, control it, do anything you want with it. Go up, pianissimo, now come back.\nAnd when I heard the old timers do all this stuff.\n\nMiguel Fleta, you say, my God, that's singing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1200.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is singing. Not now, just\nsinging one song, hit a high C and walk off the stage because you got to clap.\nClapping for that. Love that because that's my song. Where are the vocal\nteachers? Most of the vocal teachers are dead now. They don't really train you.\n\nOne of my favorite singers, Tito Schipa. When I heard him, I just, I wept again,\nI wept again. Oh I was just flustered. In fact, Schipa was at a party, and his\nteacher was there. And somebody said sing for us, Tito. So he went on and sang.\nHis teacher got up and berated him, and I think it said actually slapped him.\nSaid you're not ready yet.\n\nNow, there's a theory of mine as being a teacher. I don't want to be a Svengali.\nYou can be an exploitative Svengali, and just keep a student coming back. Or you\ncan be really into helping the person. And showing them when it's not\nappropriate to do a certain thing, so they won't ruin the instrument. This man\nactually slapped him on the stage. Said you're not ready yet. Schipa sang up\ninto his seventies. As well as Roland Hayes. I saw in person and conversed with\nRoland Hayes. He stumbled out on the stage at Morgan College. And when he\nstarted singing, you could hear a pin drop.\n\nHis Lieder was out of this world. You know the story of Roland Hayes. After the\nFirst World War he went to Germany. Some of them didn't want him. When he walked\nout on the stage, there was pandemonium for about, they said a great length of\ntime. He just stood there, this little Black man, stood there. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1320.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was about\nfive-six, five-seven. Just stood there. Solemn. Closed his eyes. And when all\nthe pandemonium was over, he started singing. [Mr. Jones sings Du bist die Ruh']\nReal quiet. [Mr. Jones sings] When he got through, they picked him up on their\nshoulders, ran him around the theater, ran him outside the theater.\n\nThe power of music is so strong. Catch those vibrations. Keep it under control,\nand sing from the heart. I teach my vocal clients it's therapeutic for you and\nfor the audience. Just don't sing because you're the top tenor. Oh, I can do\nthis, and people glorify you. That's the wrong approach. The approach is that a\ncreator that I know nothing about. I can appreciate what the creator puts there.\nI'm not going to put a face on it. I'm not going to put a religion on it. That\ngives you these vibrations that can be put in some kind of form, and we can\nlearn to reproduce the vibrations because of the ear and the hammers on the\ninside of the ear transforms these vibrations. And you have what you call a\nmusical ear to discern whether it's high, low, whatever. And they take out of\nthe text --whether it's love, religious, spiritual -- something from your\nexperiences. Not from the composer's, because you don't know the composer. If\nyou read about it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1440.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A mother's face, a father's death, a lover, whatever. And if you can bring it to\na spiritual level, you can make for that one moment all that tension to create\nit. And people exploit it. When I look at television at night, on the Leno show.\nThere's people singing or trying to sing, what I call, because they're being\nexploited by some company to make the money to sell the record. It should be\nalmost like in the spiritual world. It's like religious.\n\nIf I go to Peabody and hear a singer, with no expression on their face, not even\ntrying to reach me, they know it technically, but there's nothing behind it. We\nused to call it soul. It could stop you in your tracks. If you play with a look\non your face like, \"I want to get out of this place,\" you're doing me a\ndisservice if I'm paying the money to go and see it. You don't know how you're\ngoing to change a person by just digging in. That's your job. You're a\ntherapist. You're a music therapist.\n\nOne of the greatest things I ever did was play. My granddaughter was in the\nhospital with Crohn's disease. You familiar with that? Inflammation of the lower\nbowel. She suffered. She's still alive. There's a new drug out that helped her\nout. She's in college now.\n\nThere's a little girl in there, Caucasian young lady, eighteen years old. She\nwas almost like a baby. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1560.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Her father was there. He was changing her and all. Okay?\nSo one day I came in and they were in there. And I said, you mind if I go over\nto her. He said I don't mind. And she was, you know, she wasn't aware where she\nwas, she would just roll her eyes. So I whispered in her ear and sang, [Mr.\nJones sings This Little Light of Mine]. And her little eyes, little smile. And\nher father says, she was smiling. And I felt like breaking down and crying. I\ndidn't do that because I felt sorry for myself or for her. I did it because it's\na human being in such a state that maybe I could give some encouragement for her\nexistence. You know?\n\nAnd another time with the Baltimore Municipal Opera Company, (we do work at\ndifferent schools) we sang at a school for the severely handicapped. Some of\nthem had helmets on so they wouldn't hurt themselves. And some of them blurted\nout, you know, I think they call it Tourette's. And while we were singing\ndifferent things from The Old Maid and the Thief, \"Old woman, old woman\" and\nsome of the other things, the spirituals, whatever. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1680.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some of their hands were\nwaving in time, perfect rhythm, perfect direction. And I turned around and I\nlooked at one young lady who was sitting with her feet crossed, looked like my\ngranddaughter, one of my granddaughters. And I turned around to Dorothy (Dorothy\nLofton Jones is the head of the group), and I was like this. And I was making\nlike I had a cold, tears just coming down my face.\n\nSo I was talking to the principal (he's a Caucasian gentleman), I said you're\ndoing wonderful work. I said, how can you do it? He said, in essence, somebody\nhas to do it. And some of the people were on gurneys. They didn't know what day\nit was. And it dawned on me, it's madness out here. People got perfect health\ndoing nothing with their time. Look out for their own interest, their own.\nPoliticians don't care. Get the money.\n\nThis country is not a democratic country. Democratic things you have to work on\nall the time. It's a capitalistic republic. Why should they deny you to go to a\nschool that your parents have to pay for. And one staff in the whole school, the\norchestration classes, just the little children flunk because of some prejudice.\nBut it you look at Beethoven's scores and other scores, my God\n\nthey're like chicken scratches. You would not believe it. That's why, if you're\na musician, do research so you can converse with your professors. When they give\nyou something about Bach, read as many books as you can, if you're a fast\nreader, if you can retain it. Read everything from the pimples on his gluteus\nmaximus to if he had a coughing problem. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1800.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If he had a problem with his wife. Get\nall the information you can. With the computers now, you can get anything. But\nthen go beyond that. Make sure about the political atmosphere that these people\nlived in, whether singer, dancer, whatever, what was going on.\n\nLike I told you about the score about the Moor [Verdi's Otello], you're as evil\nas the black as your face. Now that could be the European people that enjoy\nEuropean atmosphere at the time. There were Moors and people all through that\narea. So why didn't Mozart know about this? And is black always evil? Is the\nAsian always considered scrupulous because they have to live in a hard society\nor not in a hard society? Can you think about the human being trying to survive\nwhen you write or compose something? Are all Jews like this? No. Are all Blacks\nwith the swagger and with the hands? No. That's a taught thing.\n\nWhy couldn't I sing at a Methodist Church when I was coming up from the Catholic\nChurch? Why couldn't they sing Christmas hymns at the synagogue or at the Jewish\nschools? There was a young lady at Morgan who was working at the Jewish school,\na private school, and the professor said, was talking about, I think it was\nethics or something like that. He said tell them why you cannot sing a Christmas\ncarol at the school that you teach? She said because they won't allow it.\n\nAnd yet you have to be inclusive because there are all types of people in the\nworld. I can't be just the chosen one. Could all Blacks be the only ones singing\nthe blues? You go up to the hills of Tennessee and you hear a lot of blues.\nBlues mean that you making a lament. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=1920.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, my wife left me for the postman. And\nI'm singing, oh, she left me.\n\nAnd then a teacher at Morgan told me, Dr. [Calvin] Lampley, wonderful man,\nbeautiful man. He say, tell Mr. Jones what the blues is. He put it in an\nanalyzation of a chord structure. Not the lament. So then I was totally\nconfused. Because when you play it, you get the same effect as you're singing\nit, although you don't have the dialogue.\n\nSo musicology, all of these type of things, have to center on what is real and\nnot to romanticize in such a way that students or people that's trying to train\ncan get something coupled with their personal experiences. Especially a singer.\nEspecially a singer! And now I'm teaching myself classical guitar because I know\nthe theory. Teaching myself harmonica. I think it's the six-eighty, that's the\nbig one. And I'm learning to play, I did not want to play it by numbers. I\nwanted to learn the scale so I know where the changes are. And you look at any\nmusic, whether it's classical or not, and play it. But if a client comes to me,\nI don't tell him to go out and buy the most expensive thing. I said get yourself\na round pitch pipe. I gave him the circle of fifths, major, and then I show him\nwhat the minor is. Count back a third. That's what my master teacher, Mr.\nAnderson, taught me. And this has carried me all through life.\n\nRhythm. I had rhythm class with Angelo Gatto out at Morgan. [Mr. Jones hums a\nrhythm]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2040.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, for a person in the percussion class, if he has a little piece of\nmusic and play it all the time. Oh, I feel something, I hear something. [Mr.\nJones hums, etc.]. Then if you can put it down, if you go\n\nto his class, he'd say okay, here's your assignment. Like you're doing your\nresearch. Even if it's not what they're teaching in the class.\n\nNow Mr. Anderson taught me. If I would sing something and see a sixteen note, I\nrushed to where it is. I thought it was faster. Making the effort again. Same\npulse, you got to sing the sixteenth note. Now when I went to the class out at\nMorgan for rhythms. I said, he gave me something to cup onto this. Now Angelo\nGatto's giving me something. And I wrote a Bolero for my assignment. And after\nclass I could play it. [Mr. Jones hums.]\n\nAnd I tell the young singers when I work with them, once you get the rhythms in\nyour music, then opera becomes fun. You can shape the character. If you don't\nknow what you're going to do with the next measure, it should be like a\nteleprompter, and then you don't have to listen to the record all the time. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2160.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You\nsit the rhythm inside your body. Come to a difficult part, gee, look at it. And\nkeep that flow, keep your body flow, your rhythm flow going. Don't just stand\nthere and say what do I do next? If you don't know by that time, you shouldn't\nstand on the stage.\n\nThis is what I learned from Saul Lilienstein and that experience with the\nHarford [Opera Company]. I'm doing the same thing when I perform with the\nBaltimore Municipal Opera Company. Many opportunities. I work with the\nSpotlighters. We just did \"Kill a Mockingbird.\" I did the Reverend because\nsomebody pulled out. I didn't get paid for all that stuff.\n\nBut see when I was working for the post office, I was sure that at the first of\nthe month I'd go and get my money to sustain myself and my family. But though\nI'm not rich, but I'm rich in music, music genre. I love it. Some of the things\nI reject because I don't call it my style.\n\nAnd as I say, when I got back to analyzing spirituals, I said, why did I abandon\nthis years ago? Because I was in a groove with the classical. But you can learn\nfrom everything coupled with your studies at Peabody.\n\nNow, are you familiar with Ted's [music store]?\n\nJULIA KOO: Ted's? Yes.\n\nJAMES JONES: I knew the original guy before he died. Cause now you can't find\nanything in there. We were doing Liebeslieder Waltzes out at Morgan. I was doing\nthe tenor portion. As well as my mentor at the time, Joseph Eubanks. So they all\nhad to go out and get these texts. Which cost at the time -- I think it was\nabout ten dollars. So I said, well, I'll go down to Ted's. It was dusty and\ndirty in there, and the old gent said, oh you can go back there and look.\n\nGuess what I got for four dollars? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2280.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I went back to sing my part, where did\nyou get that book? I said, down Ted's. They paid twenty, fifteen dollars for\ntheir scores. I paid four dollars. I still got it. And I love the Liebeslieder\nWaltzes. Whenever I'm asked to do something, and now my pleasure is analyzing on\nmy level, sight reading, the things that I can't. And it opens some doors.\nClassical music for guitar by Fernando Sor, Carissimi. But the melodies. I mean\nstuff from the nineteenth century, and these men didn't have all the televisions\nand all this stuff.\n\nI'm talking you out of tape.\n\nWas there anything specific you really wanted, or just wanted me to ramble on?\n\nJULIA KOO: Just your life in Baltimore and the musicians around here. Have you\never met Ellis Larkins?\n\nJAMES JONES: Ellis Larkins was before my time, but my teacher knew him very well.\n\nJULIA KOO: Which teacher?\n\nJAMES JONES: Robert Earl Anderson. And I think, I'm not sure, is he going, have\nyou talked to him?\n\nJULIA KOO: Ellis Larkins? No. I was supposed to have a meeting with his sister,\nbut that didn't work out.\n\nJAMES JONES: I think Robert Earl Anderson -- I want to be sure of this. I think\nRobert Earl Anderson taught Ellis Larkins. See, cause Mr. Anderson was basically\na pianist. But he took on the choir at Douglass. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2400.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mr. Anderson got his education,\nlike I said, from Howard University and then he went to Boston to work on his\nmaster's. And some kind of ways got a little miffed with the teacher. And he\ndidn't complete his masters.\n\nJULIA KOO: Or Eubie Blake.\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh, the lady just died that, when Eubie Blake used to come here, he\nused to go to the lady's house and stay.\n\nJULIA KOO: Where?\n\nJAMES JONES: She lived on Saratoga Street. No. She's dead now. You wouldn't know\nher. Her name was Fisher. Her nephew was Dr. Fisher out at Morgan. He's dead\nnow. And he used to play for me. When Eubie Blake used to come in town, he used\nto stay with her. Her name was Anita, Anita Fisher. She's passed.\n\nAnd she used to tell me stories about Eubie Blake. Well, I was writing a book on\na Black boxer named Joseph Gans. He was a light heavyweight in 1902, and Joe\nGans had a bar, restaurant, right over where the new post office is. They got\nhomes over there now. And I'm writing a book on his life, Joe Gans, the boxer.\n\nEubie Blake used to play at his club, restaurant. It was a hotel.\n\nJULIA KOO: Do you remember what it was called?\n\nJAMES JONES: I think it was the Goldfields Bar. I'm not sure. He won, when he\nwon the lightweight championship, he won a lot of money, and he came back and\nestablished that bar, the boxer. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2520.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Eubie Blake used to play piano in there.\nBecause it was supposed to have been a fast place, you know. He didn't tell his parents.\n\nAnd the Goldfields Bar, that was the name of it, and when they tore that place\ndown to put this new building. I went outside there. You know when you go over\nto Orleans Street, going back east. If you go down Mulberry Street, when you go\npast Charles Street, and you go down the hill, and go over that, used to call it\nthe Orleans Street viaduct, over that bridge, and you see all the city. Keep on\nover past Gay Street, and you look over to your right and see a little street,\nand you see all these houses. They're all new. His Goldfield Bar used to be\nthere, with the new post office here. Used to be right across the street.\n\nAnd the doors never closed. The only time they closed was, I got the article,\nwhen the man used to take care of the place closed it to go to Joe Gans's\nfuneral. He died in 1910, the boxer. And the reason why I'd go to them because\nwhen I was young, I went to a couple of the boxing gyms named after him. What\nwas his name? And then I found out my grandmother, and I talked to her and I\nsay, Joe Gans has a daughter and a son. She says I know, I used to play with his\ndaughter. Over on Myrtle Street, Myrtle Avenue in the Black section. And I said,\nyou did? I said did you ever see Joe Gans? She said, yes, I saw him a couple\ntimes. He was a heck of a boxer.\n\nAnd they used to give dances called cakewalks. That dance where you throw your\nfeet up -- high step. They used to give dances. Joe Gans was like the Joe Louis\nof his era. Now he was born in 1874 and died in 1910, the boxer. Eubie Black was\na teenager and he played piano in his bar. Eubie Blake's mother didn't know it\nthough. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2640.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they considered that place a rowdy place, you know. And they used to\ngive dances for Joe Gans when he would come back from boxing.\n\nAnd the place was jumping all the time. And various celebrities used to stop\nthere. Jack Johnson, the great fighter. And, in fact, when they tore that place\ndown, I was working at the post office. It didn't dawn on me what I should have\ndone. They had a nameplate in front when the bar was put up, with the name of\nthe bar and all. This is what the Black community does, they don't understand.\n\nThey don't have the political power. I don't know what the Black historians\ntoday write about other things. Just because it was my interest. If somebody\nknew that that plate was there, don't you think they would halt that\nconstruction? And to this day, every time I go by there, why didn't I just take\nthe time off, find out who was the head of construction, and say if you find it\nplease reserve it for me. As well as I go out to the gravesite where he's\nburied, and it's in disrepair.\n\nAnd when I went with my grandson, weeds all over the place. Now this man had\npeople coming from Europe and different places just to visit the gravesite out\nthere in Cherry Hill. And one tombstone was down, one tombstone was up. And I\nfound out it was his uncle buried there, and his son was there. And I called the\npeople who were responsible. They pushed it up. But people used to come from\neverywhere to see his gravesite. In fact, when Mike Tyson came, he went out\nthere. But his name is not too good now, but it doesn't matter.\n\nIt just shows you how we as Black historians now and researchers don't hold onto\nthe one aspect, unless there's really some money in it for somebody. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2760.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I\nwasn't in it for the money. I wanted to know that there are more people here\nthan the Cal Ripkens. No harm. Cal Ripken's a nice man. As far as getting the\nhistory is concerned.\n\nYou know, I don't know what people are doing. And I really don't care. But I\nknow if I want to write about you, I'm going to find out everything I can about\nyou. If it's something personal you don't want, I won't put it in. But you have\nto have the curiosity. Yo Yo Ma, wonderful musician. I want to know, what\ntroubles did he have to go through. Was he accepted right away? See, this stuff\nthat's going on now is subtle.\n\nLike one time I went down to Peabody and I was disgruntled. I wasn't getting\nwhat I wanted at Morgan. There was a big German lady, she was sitting there. She\nsaid, do you read? I said, well, she gave me the test. It was the preparatory\ndepartment. She started playing, and I sang something. She said oh very good.\nShe said, now duplicate everything I do -- ear training. And I duplicated\neverything. She said, now sight-read this, and I didn't know a thing about\nsight-reading. I did everything by ear. I went, uh, uh, uh, uh. And I could see\nher point.\n\nOh you, don't get me wrong, musically, you're illiterate. But Mr. Anderson\ndidn't say that. Although he was not a Caucasian. He said I'm going to work with\nyou, because he knew my background from the school. And we started from the\nmother of all scales, the major, C major. He taught me about intervals. And when\nI started to know what a major third was. Didn't have television then, I'd sit\nby the radio, and there was only one station in classical music, and I'd turn it\non. The slow pieces. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=2880.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I heard [sings], that's a major third. You see. I had\nrelative pitch, not absolute pitch [sings]. I'd pick out all the major thirds.\n\nThen I found out do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do. And I started doing it forward\nand backwards. And I used to play games with myself. See, I hear music all the\ntime. In the background when I'm talking to you, I'm hearing stuff. And I wanted\nto know how to put it down. Why I can't sing that? He said, it's a skill level,\nso you have to work with it all the time. And this is the way I got my music education.\n\nAt the time when I was coming up, every Black church on a Sunday, you could go\nfrom church to church and hear concerts. If it was spiritual, gospel or\nwhatever. You didn't have to sit in front of the television. I'd go one church\nand you know, and go to another church, and they were in my whole neighborhood\non the corner. Five Blind Boys who Ray Charles used to work with, Sister Rosetta\nTharpe, she used to sing gospel music and had a guitar. Okay?\n\nAnd my mother says she remembers when at one of the theaters which isn't there\nanymore, the Lincoln Theater, where some of the great singers. Ethel Waters,\nsang there. Of course, the Royal was the education of all educations. And the\npoliticians didn't have enough clout for them to keep it there. Because they\ncould still have performances there.\n\nAnd where I learned about Scott Joplin. A man made a statement the other night,\na historian. I saw \"Porgy and Bess\" a couple of weeks ago. Said that Sportin'\nLife, oh 'Porgy and Bess\" was the first written about ethnic, you know, Black. I\nsay, you got to be kidding. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3000.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Scott Joplin wrote Treemonisha before George\nGershwin was even born. And the prototype for Sportin' Life was Zidzetrick, which\nI've done many times.\n\nAnd I'll tell you another story. There was a young gentleman doing a couple of\nminor roles, James Atherton. He worked with the Baltimore Opera Company.\nWonderful. When I worked with the Harford, I was doing Madame Butterfly, And I always shaped my own\ncharacters. I never let a director tell me how to shape my character unless it\nwas really out of form. And I remember the Japanese culture, so I took a fan and\nkept flicking it like the Kabuki. So that's where I took the character.\n\nHe walked in at one of the rehearsals, and he was doing it with the Baltimore\nOpera Company. So I was at the stage where I didn't care if anybody come and\ncopy anything, which people had been doing for years and taking from Black\npeople. And I didn't even see the performance. So I talked to him. I used to\nmeet him when he used to come back. He went all over Europe. And I did my thing,\nand I don't know what, how he shaped his character, but he was fabulous. But he\ndid all the comprimario roles. I can't remember. He went to Peabody, but he's\ndead now. And I won't get into that story, about I think how he died, because he\nwas going with one of the famous conductors. Doesn't bother me at all.\n\nBut he came out there and watched me. I used to talk to him. Which didn't matter\nto me. And this is the way you shape characters. You learn something about the\nculture. You don't make it superficial, you make it real.\n\nSo various things I have learned from different people. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3120.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I know that the field,\nthe music field that we are in, is very. You meet some characters who think\nthey're the only ones that can do this, or you can't tell them anything. I\nalways said this, never tell somebody to do something unless they ask you. Could\nyou show me? And if you don't mind, you do it. But you have a person that's\nreached that upper level and don't mind doing it for you, then you got a\ntreasure trove of experience that you would never get from this person.\n\nLike I say, Baltimore was so musical, so musical. You would not believe. The\nchurches, basically that's where we used to get that information from. And then\na few people would sing, like Paul Robeson would come through and sing at the\nchurches. Because they were accepted all over the world then. But in this\ncountry, certain places, they weren't accepted. Like Mr. Hayes couldn't sing in\na lot of places in the South right where he was born. But he ended up buying the\nsame farm that his parents had worked on as slaves.\n\nShe gave a lot of information on how to get along in life. When I was coming up,\nBlacks couldn't go in the stores downtown to try on clothes. Certain places we\ndidn't go. And we went out to Druid Hill Park, you know where that is. We walked\non Fulton Avenue on the median strip where the grass was. You didn't walk on the\nside because it was all Caucasian.\n\nAnd that's the kind of atmosphere that a parent had to send their kids out to\nschool. Along with the so-called Black bullies, we had to be careful of\nirritating the white bullies. So it was just almost like now. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3240.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Only thing now is\nmore open, and it's much more problems with kids with the dope and that sort of thing.\n\nAnd I used to go in clubs, musician played with my uncle, and they would see him\nand beg him for money so they could pay their rent. Yet they were driving cabs\nduring the day. That's what I wrote my junior paper on. We had to pass what they\ncall the junior proficiency at Morgan\n\nCollege. Five hundred words with less than five mistakes, or you'd have to take\nit over again. And you know what I wrote it on? The Black musician during my\ntime -- from my experiences.\n\nI mean, these guys were fabulous. You'd see them come in and pick the bass up.\nBecause I went there with my uncle, but I couldn't drink. I wouldn't drink in\nthere. The man would lose his license. I would sit there and just watch them.\nThey said, how you doing? Used to call me. They'd go and play. Then I'd hear\nthem go over, you know, I got to pay my rent. Had to go over and beg the white\nowner for a little advance.\n\nAnd the last time my uncle played, I saw him play, the place was right over from\nthe new post office. There was one drunk in there with his head on the table.\nSmoke all over the place. I was in the Navy, and I went down to see him, and he\nwas playing. He used to let me get up and play the guitar. I only played the\nblues in B flat. [Mr. Jones sings].\n\nHe let me play. Anyway, these guys they weren't making much money. Some of them\nended up drinking a lot, using, whatever. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3360.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was the frustration. But that's\nwhat I wrote my thesis on, because I knew the subject, and I didn't get fancy.\nIndependent clauses, comma here where I knew it was supposed to be. And I didn't\nget faluting, or verbose so I could pass it. And I passed it. It's out there in\nMorgan's English Department's files. I guess they threw it away, but I passed\nit. I wrote what I knew. And I would encourage anyone if they're writing a song,\nwrite what you know about -- not something you don't know about. If you never\nhad a lover, don't write about it. If you know what it feels like to see\nsomebody that you adore and they don't respond, you know how to write it. You\nknow, like Hugo Wolf. You know the story of Hugo Wolf? You know who he was, the musician?\n\nJULIA KOO: Yes.\n\nJAMES JONES: He ended up on street corners. He was in the era where there were\ntwo musical giants, but they didn't recognize his music. As well as the painter,\nModigliani -- selling his drawings just to get some wine. It's heart rending\nwhat we let society do to us.\n\nSo I tell any young musician, Black musician, look, here we are. If you're not\naccepted on that level, they don't pick you for the audition, don't stop your\ntalent. God gave you the talent. Don't let human beings mess it up. They don't\neven let you at these festivals. So, what's his name, Cliburn, won one festival.\nWhat's he doing? Awadagin Pratt is still performing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3480.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Do you know a friend of mine that plays for the Municipal Opera Company,\nMaxwell. You know Maxwell?\n\nJULIA KOO: No.\n\nJAMES JONES: Maxwell Brown. He's already graduated. He works down at the\nUniversity of Maryland. He knows Pratt. And I said, Pratt comes in town, wants\nto get on the basketball court. I said, Maxwell, that man messes his hands up.\nHe said, that's what he wants to do. See, Pratt was one of the first that didn't\ngo for the image that he had to be like the Caucasian, manicured. He still\n\nkeeps the dreadlocks. I said, bravo for you. As long as he doesn't come out\nnaked. Bravo for you.\n\nIt's the talent we want. I don't care if he comes out in short pants. Glenn\nGould was one of the most -- you ever heard about Glenn Gould? I said, don't let\nthe door hit him. So what? But what did he have to offer? As long as you're not\ntoo ridiculous and come out and throw paper wads at the people while you're\nplaying. Or come out and sing and belch all over, you know.\n\nAs a musician there are certain things you have to do to maintain your dignity,\nand not stay on that particular level, so that people won't make excuses. Well,\nyou know, he was late three times. So you're out, if you want a good job. And\nyou always have to walk that treadline. I met some wonderful people that didn't\ngo for any of that stuff. As long as you act with dignity. You know, and like I\nsay that Svengali type thing: you can't go without me, I would never tell a\nclient -- that's what I call them, clients, not students -- not to do this. Mr.\nHayes told me when he came here to Goucher [College]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3600.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the things he told\nme is I said, should a teacher telling a student (or a client I call them) what\nto sing? He said, no. You give him the techniques.\n\nI said a long time ago about gospel singing, I wanted to write a thesis to give\nto people teaching gospel in the churches: How not to have people ruin their\nvoices. But look at who we got. Most people in gospel, they can't talk the next\nday, they can't talk the next week. They're talking in a whisper. They can't\ntalk at all because what? They're doing something for the glory of their\ncreator. But the screaming and hollering is ruining this beautiful instrument\nthey got.\n\nYou got to have some technique. You have to train just like I was, from here,\nfrom the diaphragm and to place the vowel. You can get so carried away with\ndoing things for Jesus and the Creator and God that you blow your whole\ninstrument, the gift that was given to you. And you were destined to use that.\nBut you have people not thinking. They use too much of the heart than the brain.\n\nSo I wrote my thesis on A. Jack Thomas, which I found a mass of information.\n\nJULIA KOO: Why did you want to?\n\nJAMES JONES: Because he was important in Baltimore musical history. In fact, he\nwas the one that pushed. He had a big symphony orchestra, if you want to call it\nthat. He did a lot of things to open up Black Baltimore to classical music and\nalso, you know, band music also. He was a bandmaster. He wasn't the first now.\nThat's where I made a mistake in my thesis. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3720.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he was one of the first. He\nwasn't the first.\n\nAnd Miss Eileen Southern was a researcher when De Lerma submitted my work to the\nresearchers up in Chicago. They sit there, hawk eyes, and the audio version,\nwhen I talked to A. Jack Thomas's first wife, and I asked her how did he\ncompose. She said, he would sit at the table. He didn't need a piano.\nApparently, he had absolute pitch. And then Miss [Elizabeth] Schaaf, last year I\nthink it was, I couldn't find his scores. I couldn't find them at Morgan. And I\nhave a catalogue of all his music. You'll see it here. She said go over there\nand look in that box. All the scores.\n\nMorgan didn't know where they were. Everything was in the catalogue and Dr.\nStrider, the head of the music department when I was going out there had passed.\nHis wife said he had passed, didn't know where they were. I looked and looked\nand looked. Asked people, nobody knew. Miss Schaaf had them [at the Peabody\nArchives]. I don't know where she got them, but she had them. And they performed\nhis works at that Live, Gifted and Black concert. I said, just mention my name,\nthat's all. She mentioned my name. I heard them. I went. He was a master\norchestrator. He fought in the First World War. OK? He was born in Pittsburgh.\nWell, you can read it.\n\nJULIA KOO: Yeah. I read it.\n\nJAMES JONES: And the prejudice he went through. He used to play out in the park.\nHe had certain things about derogatory terms against, then they were called\n\"colored\" people. Now it's African American. I don't know what it's going to be\nnext year. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3840.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What's going on now, you don't know what's going to go on in this nation.\n\nI would tell any musician don't let human beings mess you up. If you don't win a\ncompetition, keep singing. God gave you the voice, not human beings. Now I went\ndown for an audition one time and sang from [Mozart's] Cosi Fan Tutte. It was\njust \"My love is a flower\" [Mr. Jones hums]. It was right down here at Peabody.\nAnd a blind singer by name of Alphonso Williams, who was an opera genius, an\nopera genius, he was in the audience. I didn't know that at the time. So I sang\nit in English.\n\nEnglish to me is the most difficult language to sing in. 'Cause everything is\nnaked there. Italian is the most easiest language to sing in. It's almost like,\ndon't get me wrong, baby talk, \"Amore.\" Now, cut that with \"I love you.\" You\nknow, \"you.\" So I sang it in English [Mr. Jones sings]. You know, good\ntechnique. So when I got through, one of the adjudicators says why did you sing\nthat? He knew it was hard. I'll put it this way, not hard, difficult. When I\nsing English, I sing like I sing Italian. I go right to the vowels. Cut the\nconsonants, go right to the vowels.\n\nAnd real consonants, like the Treemonisha we're doing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=3960.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I go right to the vowels.\nAnd it's more understanding if you keep it, keep the rhythm going, support it.\nAnd I don't think like I'm singing in English. I sing like I'm singing in. I cut\nto the vowel and carry it right through. Because once you attack the vowels\nproperly, especially in any language, it eases what. It eases the air support.\n\nCause that's what, gives the air support, the vowels. It's not supporting those\nconsonants. So you cut right through it. So when we went, when I sang in a\nsynagogue. They said, you going to sing in here. I said, I don't know. He said\nyou're singing. [Jones sings]\n\nWhen I was with the quartet we sang \"Eli Eli.\" We used to put that in our\nrepertoire. All Black kids singing \"Eli Eli.\"\n\nJULIA KOO: What was the quartet called?\n\nJAMES JONES: The Starleers.\n\nJULIA KOO: Star?\n\nJones. Star leers. Like a star, and then l e e r s.\n\nJULIA KOO: Was your uncle in it?\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh he had different groups, but he just put them together to play\nin clubs. Ethel Ennis played in his group. She's a known jazz singer. She used\nto sing down at Annapolis with Charlie Byrd. And her husband was named Arnett.\nHe used to work for the Sunpapers. Earl Arnett I think his name was. But Ethel\nEnnis used to play in my uncle's group. Different groups, he would get people\ntogether and play at the clubs. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4080.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a master. Tap dancing. Instrument man.\n\nWhen I went out to Morgan, I didn't have too far to go. But I learned a lot from\nDr. Strider too. I learned about orchestration. And everything came so close.\nBits and pieces I picked up. When I was quote \"musically illiterate.\" It's a\ntough city.\n\nAnd now I look at things. I didn't know about the movable C. Where if you move\nit, it's still C. Wherever you move it, it's C. That's why I say I don't want to\ngo another school with the English method of schooling. I like the German\nmethod. Get the bibliography, come back, you pass the test, you get your degree.\nYou go fight in the field, in the army, then come back, take the test. You\npassed young man.\n\nNot attendance every day. Dr. Strider told me a story. You ever heard of a man\nnamed Morton Gould?\n\nJULIA KOO: No.\n\nJAMES JONES: Morton Gould was an American orchestrator and composer. Excellent.\nWent up to New York University. Was it Columbia? One of those schools in New York.\n\nJULIA KOO: Where's he from?\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh, I can't remember. He's a Caucasian composer. He's written a lot\nof beautiful music though. Dr. Strider was in one of his classes. Both of them\nwere students. That was the man who was at Morgan that sent me out on Charles\nStreet to sing for the musical director tat wanted me to sing all those parts.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4200.0,4320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, he said Morton Gould got up and walked out. They didn't like the way he\nwas writing. He said they were too slow for him, and he walked out. Became world\nrenowned. Ask some of your teachers about Morton Gould. They'll tell you. And\nDr. Strider said, this man became a famous composer. As well as Dr. Strider, who\nwas an African American gentleman.\n\nI thought he was the most easiest teacher. Some people thought he was lazy. One\nday he brought us into the classroom, and he said, the whole page, underline\nwhat I tell you. This, this, this, this. Go to chapter 2. This, this, this. It\nwas orchestration. He had. I said, well, why did they write the whole book? And\nthen it dawned on me: just to sell it.\n\nIf you had the central things in the textbooks they give you, you wouldn't have\nthe biggest book in the world. You understand? At one of the classes I had at\nMorgan, you had to make what they call legal briefs. And they said, go and read\nthe text of this law, and break it down into two sentences or three sentences.\nYou don't need all that other stuff.\n\nThat's the way the system is set up. And like I say, I've had good teachers. I'm\nnot the richest person in the world, but when I see what I call a second-rate\nchoice for somebody. When I go to an audition, somebody's going to be an\nadjudicator. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4320.0,4440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't like it, because somebody should get something from\nstanding up there and trying to sing. If they can't be picked for that role,\npick them for another role.\n\nNobody should walk away with nothing. And that's the way they set this system\nup. And then behind that system you got people on the board that puts a lot of\nmoney into it. And sometimes, you know, the picks will come in. I've seen them\naudition. If the picks come in, you can forget about it.\n\nOne time I went for an audition over for the Baltimore Symphony to sing with the\nBaltimore Symphony, which I have done. I've sung with the Baltimore Symphony.\nThe Porgy and Bess things -- did it twice. One time I did it with my professor,\nJoseph Eubanks, and did it with someone else. I did Sportin' Life.\n\nThe critics were, I don't pay no attention to critics, but let me show you. The\nfirst year we did it, oh, it was wonderful. Next year, the Baltimore Symphony\nwas the star. Now this will show you the prejudice of so-called critics. Same\nperformance. So if you pay attention to critics, you'll be frustrated, in a\npadded cell with a straight jacket on. Like Hugo Wolf. I'm a composer. I can\nwrite music. Do your thing. Let the critics say what they want. Most critics are\nfrustrated actors, frustrated directors, frustrated this, frustrated musicians. Okay?\n\nNow this is what I can impart to the people that's in this field. When you\nbecome a professional in the field and get paid for it, you're supposed to be on\ntime. Do your job. The critics be damned. Otherwise you would never do anything.\nDo it to the best of your ability. Even if you know they're not going to pick\nyou, just go there before they expose you.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4440.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So like I say, it's a long road, and I may never get to that level. I was at\nthat level one time, when I was on tour with the Metropolitan Opera's touring\ncompany in 1966-1967. But I observed and I learned what were good directors.\nJose Quinterra, that was way before your time. He used to work with Ingrid\nBergman, the movie star. He did La Boheme. And there was a gentleman from Japan.\nI can't remember his name. He was a Kabuke, from the Kabuki Theater, did La Traviata.\n\nHe didn't work out too well because he was moving too slow. So they took it out\nof his hands. And every day he wore, I guess you call it a kimono that they\nwear. But he would sit there with a smile on his face, because he knew they had\nto pay him, and he had showed up. I learned so much from him.\n\nGunther Rennert, German. I used to come down there to the rehearsals at the\ntheater when I wasn't supposed to and just sit in the audience and watch these\nmen work. Watch the genius\n\ncome out. So when I direct something, I don't look for the big things. I look\nfor the practicality and what will get them through that. Especially with\ninexperienced singers, and how they should be pointing toward the audience. And\nhow to make their character work. When I work on an opera, it's for the person\nto shape the character. I don't care if you got the best costume on, but make\nthat character stand out. So somebody can say: wow, was he really drunk over\nthere? Or did she really do what she said, because of the look on her face? And\nalong with that beautiful, good singing, and good rapport in the theater, do not\ndrop that character -- you got something.\n\nI don't care if you're at the Baltimore Opera, you're with Municipal or with\nAnnapolis. If you're up there with a stone face singing about love, then\nsomething's wrong.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4560.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For instance, when I was on the road, a lady was supposed to do the \"Quando\"\nsong in La Boheme, by Musetta. And she was sitting at the counter in a sandwich\nshop, I think it was in Illinois. She said: \"I'm supposed to play Musetta.\" And\nI didn't say anything. So I said: how do you feel? Don't you feel catty\nsometimes, like you could take on any man in the world? That's the way you're\nsupposed to feel about yourself. I'm the best in the world. Here I am. Take it.\nIf you got money. An old man, he's thinking about his youth. Well, he can't do\ncertain things, and he's following her around hand and foot, and she's using\nhim. So I said you have to feel that. You have to pay fifty dollars for somebody\nto teach you how to be a woman -- a wild woman. You know, with the experience of\nall the world that take any man in the world and drop him at your feet. You've\ngot to drop that discipline and get into the other discipline, and let it all\nout. That's why some actors like to act.\n\nIf they've got a killer instinct, which the Army pulls out of you when you go\nin, you got to play a nasty role. Without going to jail, you can let that out.\nAnd we all got it in us. You've got to go to acting school?\n\nFor instance, I was singing with a singer. He came backstage with crumbs in his\nmouth -- like croutons. I said what the heck is that? Don't get me wrong. But\nhis teacher told him that if you put something in the mouth and do that, that\nwill loosen your mouth. I said, my God, suppose he swallowed it and get stuck\ndown in there and kill him! This year I was working with a young singer. She had\na piercing through her tongue. I said dear, could I say something. She said\nyeah. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4680.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794/transcript/39152/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you can, that would impede your singing. Please try to have it\nextracted next time. I'm giving her breathing techniques and this is pierced\nthrough her tongue. I said oh, you got to use that tongue.\n\nI mean, it's amazing what people let their kids do to themselves because of\nstyles. And I've seen, one of the singers from Peabody, female, beautiful voice.\nShe sang a love song. And I'm looking at her, and she looked like she was a\ncadaver. No expression whatsoever. Who's her teacher? You know, you can't get\nit. How do you feel about the song? Do you sit down and analyze this thing?\n\nI know I've never been crucified, but I've read about crucifixions, so when I\nsing songs about crucifixion, I get the feeling behind the words. If I can make\nmyself cry, which is very easy if I hear something emotional, I can make\nsomebody in the audience say, wow, he really means that. If I play something by\nMozart or Beethoven, I don't have to be too much distorted, contortion on my face, but I can show with you the strength of my hands. Show you the emphasis\nof what I'm doing. That's making music.\n\n[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/161794#t=4800.0,4920.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 4 - pims0091_JonesJames-1_01.mp3"]},"duration":3006.04082,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/434/original/pims0091_JonesJames-1_01.mp3?1624270876","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3006.04082,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["JonesJames_1_OHMS_20220725 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JULIA KOO: What year you were born?\n\nJAMES JONES: I was born in 1935, Baltimore, Maryland, not for from here on\nTessier Street. We used to corrupt it and call it Tissha Street, where Martin\nLuther King Boulevard is now. It was between Orchard Street and Biddle Street.\nAnd St. Mary's Seminary was on the other side of St. Mary Street. Now Biddle\nStreet is called Martin Luther King Boulevard.\n\nJULIA KOO: When did you first become interested in music?\n\nJAMES JONES: My whole family sings, just about. My grandmother used to sing in\nchoirs and sing spirituals. Most of them weren't formally trained. But there was\nalways -- one summer night I was bored and there was a group of people singing\nold hymns, and I was sitting on the curb. And the basses were there, the tenors\nwere there, and they were sitting out in the yard drinking beer and singing\nspirituals. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=0.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was just sitting there. It was gorgeous. And I had an uncle\nwho was in show business for 30 years tap-dancing, guitar.\n\nJULIA KOO: What was his name?\n\nJAMES JONES: His name was William Joseph Jones, better known as Jo-Jo. He taught\nme the rudiments of the music. He was a professional guitarist. And in fact he\ntaught me the relationships of chords. And later on, when I was singing in a\nquartet, I was in Junior High School and he used to arrange our music. And he\nwas going to veteran's school at the time. So he experimented on us. So what he\ndid was he taught us all the chordal relationships. At that time I wasn't\nreading too well, I was doing most of it by rote and my musical ear, but then I\nstarted reading and analyzing chordal relationships.\n\nJULIA KOO: And this was all around what age?\n\nJAMES JONES: Well, I was still in junior high school, and that's when I met my\nmaster teacher, Mr. Robert Earl Anderson. He taught at City [Baltimore City\nCollege], and he taught first at old. He taught me the rudiments of voice production,\n\nreading techniques, taught me to hit the high C when I was in junior high\nschool. I remember him playing the piano, and he started me on an exercise. I\ntried to hit it one time, and I couldn't control it. He put me back against the\nwall, and when I hit the high C, he said root it -- he meant from the diaphragm.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=120.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's all in your legs in your back muscles, I came off that wall at an\noblique angle, he was playing piano and at the same time he pushed me back. But\nthen, he taught me to control it. And he said, you'll take it to your grave.\n\nJULIA KOO: Do you know what Robert Earl Anderson's musical training was?\n\nJAMES JONES: He went to Howard University and Boston University. He was a master\npianist, and he taught at a high school, and he formed a choir up there.\n\nJULIA KOO: So he was a choir director?\n\nJAMES JONES: He was a master teacher. He was one of the first Black teachers at\nCity College. At one time Black musicians couldn't even go to that school --\nBlack singers weren't invited there. Which when I was going to Morgan [State\nUniversity] I was satisfied with what I was doing because I wanted to sight-read\nand I didn't know how. What I was doing with Mr. Anderson was he taught me the\ncycle of fifths, fourths, minor keys, he showed me the relationships on the\npiano about intervals, ear training. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=240.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that time I was married. I didn't have\nmuch money, so I asked him, how much is this going to cost me? He said, you got\na family; he said you got 50 cents. He taught me the seeds of relationships of\ntheory, he taught me the seeds of intervals. Anyway, he went to Howard, Boston\nUniversity, but he dropped out before he got his masters. But he taught at City,\nand Douglass High School, that's where I met him. He was a music teacher.\nGeorgeanna Chester was the head of the music department; she was a master\nmusician also. She had absolute pitch. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=360.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I used to accompany Mr. Anderson\nto recitals, and I would see him writing things down. I used to go to him for\nopera analyzations for the Met. He would invite me up to his apartment and we'd\nsit there and I heard this man singing one of the greatest operas. This man hit\nthe high C, and he told me it wasn't a high C. He said sometimes the great\nstars, the men from Europe, come with two scores. If they were feeling well,\nthey would hit the high C. But if they were under the weather, they'd use the\nsecond score, a transposed one. And I said what? A student couldn't do that at\nschool, if they couldn't do it, they couldn't do it. But that's what he taught\nme, that's what professionals do.\n\nThere was a man named William Meredith Birch, I met him in elementary school on\nPreston Street, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, School 122. He found out that I could\nsing. I sang with a group he formed called the Baltimore Boy's Choir. I was\nnine. I was a boy soprano. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=480.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Are you familiar with the Royal Theater?\n\nJULIA KOO: No.\n\nJAMES JONES: That was in the Black section. See, we couldn't go into the\nso-called Caucasian sections. Everybody had their own little -- and I'll say\n'ghettos.' The rich folks stayed over here, Italians stayed over here, and Black\nfolk in their own area. That's before they integrated the schools though. I was\nbaptized Catholic -- Roman Catholic. Well, Mr. Birch found out that I could sing\nso I sang in his choir [The Baltimore Boy's Choir] in the late 1940s. We sang at\nall Black\n\nchurches; we had sopranos, altos, tenors, and basses. He used to bring the\nGreats that would appear at the Royal Theater, which my grandmother used to take\nme to see. I saw Fats Waller, Nat King Cole, Ray Charles, the white men Woody\nHerman, Charlie Barnett. So I was bathed in jazz and spirituals. Well, let's get\nback to Mr. Birch. Mr. Birch -- one day he called me out of my class. He said,\ngo down to the Music Department. So, I walked down with short pants on, and Mr.\nBirch was talking to this man. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=600.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This man had suede shoes on, the first time I've\never seen them. I looked at his face and he had bags under his eyes. Mr. Birch\nsaid I want you to sing. So I sang for them. Later on, I found out it was Duke\nEllington. Another person I met was Sally Blair. She died a couple years ago;\nshe sang for them too, she went into the jazz field. She became a confidante of\nAdam Clayton Powell. She was just a wonderful person.\n\nMr. Birch brought Ella Fitzgerald down too. I found out she couldn't sing\nwithout a microphone [laughs]. So, she starts singing for us in the gym, and we\ncouldn't hear her, so they had to bring her a mic. She was a fabulous jazz\nsinger. You've heard of her, right?\n\nJULIA KOO: Of course\n\nJAMES JONES: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=720.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, also, my uncle, Joe Jones, was forming a group and would bring\npeople over to my grandmother's house, 1324 Lanvale Street. His combo group.\nThat was the time the big bands were playing. He had different musicians with\nhim. Because when he was in the army, he had formed a little band. Can I tell\nyou a little story about him? He was drafted in -- they used World War I helmets\n-- he was in the first draft. It was in Macon, Georgia. It was very prejudiced.\nHe used to take his musical groups up in Delaware, and you couldn't stay in the\nhotels, they were so prejudiced. Anyway, his army segregated unit was getting\nready to go overseas, and he wasn't very patriotic just like I'm not very\npatriotic [laughs]. He said they wanted musicians in the band. He practiced all\nnight and he learned how to play the melophone and he qualified. He said he had\ntears in his eyes when his unit came off the troop ship. The army had white\nofficers in charge of the Negro units at the time. He was AWOL all the time, but\nyet he was buried out in the National Cemetery where the soldiers are buried\n(both Black and white) -- where A. Jack Thomas (my master thesis subject) is\nburied. It was a bad experience. I learned when I was young that certain people\ndidn't have to accept you. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=840.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My mentor at Morgan State, Dr. Strider, the Music\nDepartment Chairman, told me they needed a singer at one of the churches on\nCharles Street. I walked in and I sang a song, and in general the music director\nsaid: sing the tenor section. And I sang it, and then he said sing the soprano\nsection, sing the alto section, sing the baritone section. By that time I had\nbroken down because I wasn't familiar with the lower voice range clefs. So when\nI went back Dr. Strider said how'd you make out? I told him what happened. He\nsaid don't worry about that. But to me, psychologically, I didn't look at music\nfor two weeks because I felt that I was inadequate. That's a subtle way of\nsaying we don't want you.\n\nI used to go to auditions, which I hate. I worked with master teachers at\nMorgan. I worked with George Shirley, the first Black tenor at the Metropolitan\nOpera Company. I worked with Howard Roberts, who has written many spirituals (he\nwas a teacher at Morgan for a while), Joseph Eubanks, a bass baritone, and I\nalso used to work with [Igor] Chicagov, who used to be the accompanist for the\nBaltimore Opera Company, who showed me things that you\nwouldn't normally get -- like literature for tenors with different cadenzas.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=960.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434/transcript/39127/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[The remainder of this recording is not transcribed. The following text is not included in the recorded interview]\n\nI worked for the post office for 38 years, and I retired in 1992. I took some\nmoney with me, put some money for my grandkids' education in stock, paid off my\nhouse. If you're financially able to do all these things, you are able to eat\nregularly. Like my grandmother told me, make sure you take care of your family,\nmake sure you take care of your bills, make sure you have a roof over your head.\nYou're born and you're dead, what you do in the between time, whether it's\npositive or negative, is called life. And that woman didn't have a formal\neducation. But she did expose me to a musically cultured family. I met good\nteachers that went out of their way like Madame [Alice Gerstl] Duschak, Mr.\nAnderson, Joseph Eubanks, George Shirley. I got something from every teacher. I\ndidn't do it by myself. I didn't go off the path, I rooted myself in it. When it\ncomes to pop singing I got a chance to sing down on the Block, which was owned\nby the gangsters. When one of the musicians, his name was Al \"Madman\" Bates, a\nsaxophonist, said we need a singer, I'd run down there and I'd sing all those\npopular songs. I was with a quartet when I was in junior high school.\n\nJULIA KOO: Where was this place called?\n\nJAMES JONES: It was called the 2 O' Clock Club. No, it was the Tropicana.\n\nJULIA KOO: And this was owned by gangsters?\n\nJAMES JONES: Oh yeah, the gangsters used to own all that stuff. Real gangsters.\nBut when the politicians came in, it started getting very moral. They started\nclosing the places down, that's why Baltimore Street doesn't have any. There's a\nplace called Chick's. It was the first integrated club. There were some fabulous\nmusicians. See, I had a chance to go to the segregated clubs to see some of the\njazz Greats you read in the history books. That was when they couldn't get the\nbig jobs anymore, and they would come down on a contract to play there. Gene\nAmmons was a fabulous sax man. Max Roach. Ethel Ennis, used to sing with my\nuncle's group before she made it to the big time. I saw Nat King Cole at the\nRoyal Theater. One of the greatest dancers in the world, his name was Baby\nLawrence, would come over to my grandmother's house on Lanvale Street with my\nuncle. He was sitting in there, but he was a dope addict. He was a dancer who\nwould dance with the best orchestras like Count Basie Orchestra. He would\nimprovise with the drummer, the drummer would do something, and then he would do\nsomething. They would improvise together. He was fabulous. There was one man in\nmy childhood my mother told me. His name was Smokey -- Alex Payne. In the 1920's\nhe was such a child star that they sent him up on Broadway. His mother and\nfather squandered his money. He's dead now. One night, when I was in junior high\nschool, my quartet sang for the Morgan College alumni over at one of the Black\nclubs. My uncle was playing the guitar, and Smokey got up and did what was\ncalled \"soft shoes\" dancing. But these were mostly Black folks that didn't\nappreciate it. The things that man did with soft shoe, you would think he was\nFred Astaire. He was fabulous. My uncle was a dancer too.\n\n[REMAINDER OF TAPE IS NOT TRANSCRIBED]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117434#t=1080.0,1200.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117435","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 4 - pims0091_JonesJames-2_01.mp3"]},"duration":3194.04408,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117435/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117435/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/435/original/pims0091_JonesJames-2_01.mp3?1624270877","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3194.04408,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117435","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117436","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 4 - pims0091_JonesJames-2_02.mp3"]},"duration":2953.03837,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117436/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117436/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/436/original/pims0091_JonesJames-2_02.mp3?1624270879","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2953.03837,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44143/file/117436","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}