{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/iiif/7p8tb0z911/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Gary Thomas oral history, 2002 April 28"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":[" Gary Thomas is a jazz saxophonist and flautist from Baltimore. He was a member of Jack DeJohnette's Special Edition band and has worked with many notable jazz musicians. Thomas was the director and chair of Jazz Studies at the Peabody Conservatory from the department's founding in 2001 until 2017. In this first interview with Delandria Mills, Thomas discusses his early career and his work as a faculty member at Peabody. (Abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":[" 2002-04-28 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":[" Thomas, Gary, 1961- (Interviewee)"," Mills, Delandria (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":[" English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://aspace.library.jhu.edu/repositories/4/archival_objects/215393"]}}],"summary":{"en":[" Gary Thomas is a jazz saxophonist and flautist from Baltimore. He was a member of Jack DeJohnette's Special Edition band and has worked with many notable jazz musicians. Thomas was the director and chair of Jazz Studies at the Peabody Conservatory from the department's founding in 2001 until 2017. In this first interview with Delandria Mills, Thomas discusses his early career and his work as a faculty member at Peabody."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/499/small/Thomas_Gary_photoshop_jpeg.jpg?1649880137","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - pims0091_ThomasG_200204-1_01.mp3"]},"duration":3015.02694,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/499/small/Thomas_Gary_photoshop_jpeg.jpg?1649880137","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/499/original/pims0091_ThomasG_200204-1_01.mp3?1624270987","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3015.02694,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ThomasG_200204_1_OHMS_20220804 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DELANDRIA MILLS: This is interview 1.25.03 with Gary Thomas and Delandria Mills.\nCould you please state your name?\n\nGARY THOMAS: [Laughs] It sounds like we're in court. I don't want to state my name.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: For the record.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Gary Thomas.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Gary Thomas is a prankster.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, my first name is Daniel.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Daniel.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Named after my father, except for the middle name. Daniel Thomas is\nmy father's name.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. Could you please state your entire name?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Daniel Gary Thomas.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. Could you please state your educational background?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I went to school.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: This is going on the internet. [Laughter] Oh man, should I rewind?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Why?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Oh good. I don't think so. Your educational background?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Why do you need that?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: They told us --\n\nGARY THOMAS: I'm paranoid.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: \"I'm paranoid\" was the name of your school.\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, I'm paranoid.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Don't be paranoid.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Okay.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Totally relaxed.\n\nGARY THOMAS: All right.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Could you please state your educational background?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Why does it sound so formal? You know me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I'm getting there.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Okay. All right. Patapsco Elementary School. Number 164. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=0.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, I'm\nsorry. 163. I went there. Is that too far back?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: No. Keep going.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Keep going? All right. Then I went to Cherry Hill Junior High\nSchool. I forget the number. I don't know if you need that.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: No. That's okay, I don't think we'll need that.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Really? All right. Then I went to Baltimore Poly Technical\nInstitute, first year of high school. And then I went to Fredrick Douglass High\nSchool for the last two years. Then I went to Howard University in the jazz\nstudies program for one year.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What is your date of birth?\n\nGARY THOMAS: June 10, 1961.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Could you please state the title of your profession?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Which one?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: All of them.\n\nGARY THOMAS: All of them? Let's see. I'm a jazz saxophone teacher, big band\ndirector -- at least I try to be. I don't think I do such a good job at it. I\nplay some saxophone, maybe some flute. Once in a while I try to get to the\nbassoon. Also play a little clarinet, some oboe. You're laughing, but I'm not\njoking. Do you believe me? Okay. I know it's going on the web, so I'm not going\nto lie about it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. Is that all?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Let's see, what else? Yeah, I think so. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=120.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I think of something\nelse, I'll let you know. Down the line.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. Where were you raised in Baltimore? What area?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Cherry Hill. I spent the biggest part of my life there. I guess\nmaybe about thirteen or fourteen years.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What can you tell me about the pool in Cherry Hill?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Pool?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I was told to ask you about the pool.\n\nGARY THOMAS: [Laughs] Who told you to ask me that?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I have sources.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I can tell you about the pool, but I don't think you want to\nput that on the web though.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. But fond memories there?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Funny. Yeah, it was. I'm a prankster.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Like what?\n\nGARY THOMAS: It had nothing to do with what I did, but then, I don't like to\nswim. Well, it was a public pool, and people had a tendency to leave things\nfloating around in the pool. I mean, not like beach balls and things like that.\nIf you get the gist.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I get it. Did you leave anything floating?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, because I didn't swim.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. How did you begin playing saxophone and why?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Saxophone. I started out on flute. But you want to know why I\nstarted playing saxophone.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Well, why were you geared towards flute first?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, my mother told me that I had to do something, like some kind\nof extracurricular activity after school. Otherwise, she'd put me to work, so I\nfigured I'd just get in a band. My best friend joined the band, so I did it\nbecause he did, and I started playing flute because it was the smallest thing\nthat I could get my hands on. Because I really didn't want to do it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=240.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay. So what led from the flute to the saxophone?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know. I think when I started playing the flute, I realized\nthat I liked it. And I started studying here too. I studied with Bonnie Lake at\nthe Prep. And I did that for a couple of years and then I started playing\nclarinet and the flute and the bassoon and oboe. I got to the saxophone last. I\nwanted to start playing the saxophone because I started seeing these bands,\nthese cover bands that played Parliament-Funkadelic music, and Cameo, and things\nlike that, and I didn't think you could do that with a flute, so I wanted a saxophone.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So how old were you when you made that switch to saxophone?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I started playing the saxophone when I was about fifteen or sixteen.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Who were your music teachers and how did they influence you musically?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Let's see. I had a teacher in Junior High School. His name was\nRichard Kirby [phonetic]. I don't know if he's still there, but I think he\nteaches at Southern High School right now. And he was a big influence. Well, he\nwas very helpful to me because he used to let us have free reign in the band\nroom. There was another guy that I met named Cornell Birch who played flute, and\nwe both started studying with Bonnie Lake here. So we used to play a lot of\nduets together, and we practiced a lot, so we needed a place to do that. And\nthis guy, Richard Kirby, would let us do that in the band room. And we could do\nthat at any time. We'd be there at all kinds of hours after school, first thing\nin the morning -- He just let us do what we wanted to do, as long as it had\nsomething to do with playing music.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=360.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right. What is possibly the most significant experience that\ninfluenced your musical creativity?\n\nGARY THOMAS: What?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What was significant that made you decide that this was\nsomething that you would choose as a career, and not necessarily just something\nfor fun. Like, you mentioned that you watched bands like Cameo.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know if there was a specific incident or a moment that made\nme realize that I wanted to do it. It just sort of happened for me. I don't\nthink I ever had plans on being a musician. I always had other interests, and I\nthought at some point or another I wanted to be a computer programmer. But\nsomehow I always stayed. I always practiced a lot, no matter what I did. And I\nhate to break it down in terms of money, but I played a gig with this guy, John\nLamkin, who's a trumpet player from here. I played a gig with him, and it was on\nthis boat.\n\nThey used to have these water taxis that floated around on the harbor. I think I\nmight have\n\nmade fifty dollars on that gig. It was a strange experience for me, because I\nhad always played for fun. Although I spent a lot of time practicing. But I\nrealized that I could make money playing music. And I think that's what kind of\nmade me kind of head that way.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How old were you at this time?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I had to be about twenty-one. And then I started hearing other\nmusicians around here -- Tim Murphy; there was a piano player named Bob Butta I\nused to play with; ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=480.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Trombonist Dan Gottshall. There was just a bunch of people.\nTom Williams, who's the son of another musician that's helped me tremendously;\nWhit Williams. Tom's a trumpet player, Whit's a tenor saxophonist. There was\nMarian Kaul, Fay Carmichael. I could just go on and on.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What musicians would you say influenced your playing the most?\nYour improvisational style.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I listen to a lot of players, but I think the thing that\nstruck me the most was when I was in high school, my last year of high school, I\nplayed in the big band. The teacher at Douglass who ran the big band was Reppard\nStone. Actually, I think that he's done a couple of masterclasses this year.\nReppard Stone. He's an arranger. He plays trombone. He plays some piano. He\nplayed a recording, a Thad Jones/Mel Lewis recording, and it had this tune on\nthere called \"Fingers.\" You know the one?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not at all.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, Billy Harper was playing on it. And when I heard that sound,\nit was all over.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Was it a Billy Harper recording?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. It was a Thad Jones/Mel Lewis recording. But Billy Harper was\nplaying the saxophone solo on that track. And I heard that sound, and I think I\nwas obsessed with trying to figure out where it came from. And that was the only\nthing that I had heard for the longest time.\n\nI was in high school at the time. And then I decided to go to college. I was in\ncollege for maybe three quarters of a year, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=600.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I had met people like Greg Osby,\nand Jerry Allen and Wallace Roney. And I was hanging out in Greg Osby's dorm\nroom. And there was another trombone-playing friend of his who lived in that\nsame dormitory, and the whole time I had been at Howard, I was talking about\nBilly Harper. I wanted to find some Billy Harper recordings. I had to find out\nwhat he does, who he plays with. And this guy ran into Greg's room and was\nbanging on the door and he said, \"Gary, you know Billy Harper's niece lives in\nthis dormitory.\" So he took me around to her room, and I wouldn't believe it. I\nsaid, \"No, you're not Billy Harper's niece.\" She said, \"No, I'll prove it to\nyou. I'll call him on the phone.\" So she got on the phone with him.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Wow.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. And I talked to him for a few seconds, and I told him I had\nheard him on \"Fingers,\" but I couldn't find any of his recordings, and about two\nweeks later, he sent me a\n\n recording.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Excellent.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. Who outside of music would you say influenced you the most?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Outside of music? That's hard to say. That's really hard to say. I\nhave to say my mother. She's always been supportive of me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Yeah.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't care how much noise I made in the house. She dealt with it.\nWhen I was learning how to play saxophone, I'd learn how to play bassoon,\nanything. She just sat there and listened to it. When I found out about\ncomputers and sequencers and things, she'd sit there and listen to the stuff\njust repeating over and over and over again. She was, outside of music, a very\nbig influence on me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did Baltimore's history itself ever influence your playing?\n\nGARY THOMAS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=720.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah. I would imagine so, just from the relationships that I formed\nwith some of the musicians who came before me. Like Whit Williams, for instance.\nAnd then there were guys like\n\nAndy Ennis and Mickey Fields. I used to go out and hang out in these clubs like\nthe Sportsmen's Lounge, The Closet. Henry Baker, for one, was a really good\nsaxophonist too. And I'm sure that influenced me in a way that, just when the\nguys went to New York and heard other players, older players -- same thing.\nSometimes, hanging out with them, and not even talking about music, but just\ntalking about life in general.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How do you feel about Baltimore's current jazz scene?\n\nGARY THOMAS: How do I feel about that. Actually, I think -- I don't know if I\nwant to say it like this, because it may sound like it's a little bit of\nbragging -- but I think it might be on a upswing just because of what's\nhappening at Peabody. Because we got a bunch of really good players. Not just\nteachers, but people who perform and have been doing it for decades, who are\nteaching at Peabody. And I think, for those people who showed up at last week's\nconcert, there was evidence of that, because that place was jam packed.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: The faculty concert.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, the faculty concert. I mean the place was packed with people\nwho were interested in hearing some music.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Speaking of Peabody's Jazz Department, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=840.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"organizing the program.\nHow did you get that going here? How did you get the administration to back you\nup? How did you become part of the faculty?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I became part of the faculty -- well, I became the faculty --\nmainly because of Dontae Winslow. Maybe it was 1996, '95. Dontae mentioned to me\nthat he had spoken with the dean of Peabody, Steve Baxter, and the dean had\nexpressed interest in starting a jazz studies program. So he asked Dontae if he\nknew anybody that might be good for the role of jazz studies director, and\nDontae happened to be walking down the hall with one of my CDs in his bag. He\npulled the CD out, and he said, \"Here, this is the guy.\" So Steve Baxter called\nme and told me that they were doing a search for this position. I guess it must\nhave been around May of the following year when they hired me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So in the beginning, you felt supported by the administration\nat Peabody?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. I can't say that. I can't say that I did. But I think for the\nadministrators, and also for me too, because I didn't have any experience\nstarting a jazz studies program or even teaching in an institution like this --\nIt was just a learning process for both me and the administrators.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: And that was in the beginning. Have you felt that it's begun to\nchange, and you've gotten more support since?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. I think so.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=960.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How were you received from the rest of the Peabody staff or the\nother members of the faculty outside of the jazz program?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I've run into some people who are really, really supportive.\nMaybe they don't know as much about the music as they probably would like to.\nStill, they seem to be very respectful. And then I've also run into people who\nare just -- I don't think they mean to be disrespectful, but they say some\nthings that are pretty -- I'm trying to be diplomatic here, so I'm trying to\nthink of something that won't sound too offensive. I've been offended on quite a\nnumber of occasions. And I had to pretty much keep my mouth shut, because we\nwere doing something new here. And if you make too many waves, sometimes people\njust nix the whole thing. I had to be quiet in a lot of cases, where normally\nI'm not used to doing that. I've always been a professional musician, and I've\ndone a lot of negotiating for myself, and I think I've developed a reputation\nfor not really taking a whole bunch of bullshit. But once I got here, I had to\nlearn how to do that. And it wasn't for my sake, but for the sake of the\nprogram. And for the sake of some of the students who would come along and could\nbenefit from the program. So I had to keep my mouth shut in a lot of cases, when\nI heard something that I knew I really wanted to say something about but couldn't.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you have a lot of say-so in the jazz faculty that came\nalong? Did you recommend them?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, in the beginning, there were a couple jazz faculty members\nthat I didn't have any say so about. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1080.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They're not here anymore. But the people\nwho are here now are all here because I asked them to be here and because\nthey're good friends of mine, and they think that this is going to be a good\nthing. Financially, it's not that beneficial to them to be here right now, but\nthey see the big picture and they want to be along for the ride.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Going back to your starting out as a musician -- I'm sure that\nonce you had your experience when you were twenty-one and you saw that you could\nmake money, you obviously excelled pretty quickly, because you had a recording\nat twenty-five.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: A lot of musicians that play at that caliber at that time chose\nto live in New York. Why did you choose to stay in Baltimore?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I hate New York. I hate New York, and also you always hear people\ntalking about New York like it's the mecca. Like all the greatest players are\nthere, and if you go to New York, you'll get burnt up and you know, they'll send\nyou packing, and you can't handle it. You won't be able to make it there. And I\nlistened in the beginning. I was afraid to go to New York. What was the\nquestion? [Laughs]\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: A lot of musicians chose to move to New York. Did you ever live there?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, I never lived there.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You just went there, played a couple of times, and saw it was\nnot for you?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I never had to live there. A lot of people figure that they have to\nlive there just because\n\nthey have to be where things are happening. But I started playing with Jack\nDeJohnette, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1200.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and maybe I was about twenty-five or so, and we spent most of the\ntime touring in Europe. We played a couple gigs here and there in the states,\nbut for the biggest part we were in Europe, so there was really no need for me\nto live in New York. And most of the musicians who live in New York, they work\nthese gigs at places like the Vanguard and the Blue Note, and they make a\nhundred dollars a night, and they do all the same gigs that we do down here in\nBaltimore -- to make ends meet. I know a lot of guys who are great, great\nplayers, but they still have to go out and do weddings. There's a really good\nguitarist that I know who was working, to supplement his income, at Tower\nRecords. I don't know. I just don't like to be around -- not that musicians are\na bad breed of people -- but I just don't want to be around it all of the time,\nand if you move to New York, I think a lot of people tend to be very cliquish.\nThey hang out with each other a lot, they talk music all of the time, or they\ntalk about how they don't like these musicians. It's not for me. And since I\nnever really had to live there to work, it was a lot easier for me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You mentioned Jack DeJohnette earlier. Who were some of the\nfirst artists that you recorded with?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Jack. He was the first person that I recorded with. Then I think\nMichele Rosewoman, Wallace Roney. I met Wallace back in college, which was funny\nbecause his practice room was next to mine. I shared a practice room with Greg\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1320.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Osby. Wallace had this practice room next to mine and in my first year of\ncollege, I learned something that most people who want to play jazz should\nlearn. I learned that I needed to start doing transcriptions, like right off the\nbat, which was lucky for me. I learned this Dexter Gordon transcription, and I\nplayed it every day. All day, every day. And Wallace was sitting in the room\nnext to me, and he had to hear it all of the time. I know it bugged him. And\nalso, I didn't know as much about the history of music, as I probably could\nhave. And Wallace was, at the time, eighteen years old, but he was a very\nexperienced musician, and he knew a lot about the music, and he was very\nreverent about great players like Bird [Charlie Parker] and Clifford [Brown] and\nMiles [Davis]. And I wasn't, because I just didn't know. So I think I offended\nWallace while we were in college, and I don't think he really thought that I\nwould amount to anything. And he told me this too. He told me that he used to\nhear me practicing that solo over and over again, and from some of the really\nstupid things that I'd say about musicians, he just thought that I wouldn't turn\nout to do anything at all. So he just kind of gave up on me.\n\nSo I didn't see him for a few years, and I would always practice. I don't know\nwhy. I didn't have any intentions of being a musician, but I would still\npractice eight hours a day, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1440.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or as many hours as I could get in, and it was a\nreal consistent thing. And I did this for a number of years.\n\nI started playing around town, around Baltimore, and then I started branching\nout to Washington, and I got this gig at this club called Woody's. The club\nowner called me up. And sometimes, club owners have a tendency to just fan out\nand call people from everywhere, so he called Wallace to do this gig. He called\nme to do the gig. He called some other people. And when I got to the club, I\nhadn't seen Wallace for years. And we were both happy to see each other, and\nWallace said, \"Oh, so what are you doing here?\" I said, \"I'm playing tonight.\"\nAnd you could see on his face that he was just like completely disgusted,\nbecause he could remember what I had been doing in college, and he remembered\nthat I was a big ignorant ass, and he was bugged because I was playing on that\ngig with him. And then we played, and after that, I recorded three records with\nhim. He was one of the first people that I recorded with too. Like three Muse\n[jazz record company] recordings.\n\nBut the first recording I did actually didn't have anything to do with jazz. But\nI played with this gospel group called Commanding Shepherds here. And I think it\nwas like my last year of high school. And the group's big claim to fame was that\nthey were the only gospel group in town with a saxophone player. Even then I was\nstill trying to get my whole, so-called jazz thing together, so I was listening\nto people like Coltrane, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1560.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and trying to take a lick here and there. I never\nreally did Col [phonetic] transcriptions back then, but I'd take these little\nlicks here and there, and then I'd go out and I'd play all these things that\nreally weren't appropriate for playing in a gospel group. But I didn't care, and\nI didn't know.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What can you tell me about your experience with Miles? It seems\nlike every article about you somewhere, they mention Miles. How significant was\nthat in your career? Not very?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, it was, but I didn't play with him for an extended period of\ntime. I think I got in the band, and stayed for about six months straight, but\noff and on I played with him for about two more years. But it was a big deal for\nme because -- Well, because he hired me, people who didn't respect what I was\ntrying to do -- it just changed instantly. Because I do remember playing in some\nclubs here, and -- The Closet for instance, and I really like Billy Harper too.\nPeople would walk up to me after the gig was over, and they'd say, \"You know,\nyou need to listen to some Hank Mobley, or somebody, because I don't know what\nyou're doing. It ain't right. It just ain't right.\" And I had this thing that I\nreally wanted to try to do, and I didn't listen. Which is sort of like a habit\nof mine. I guess I'm kind of hard-headed. But when I got in Miles Davis's band,\nthose same people who were getting on my case about the way that I played\nbefore, I guess they were okay with it then.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1680.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Playing with Miles, I think, across the board, did that for me, almost\neverywhere. Because when I started playing with Miles, I had been playing with\nJack DeJohnette for maybe about a half a year or so. And I think playing with\nMiles probably did a lot for the careers of tons of musicians. I mean, just the\nassociation. For one, the guy is a great player, but the same thing with Kenny\nGarrett -- Kenny Garrett got in the band, and his thing just blossomed. He's\nalways been a great player, but I think people began to notice him once he\nstarted playing with Miles.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: And you mentioned things that you were trying to do. I know\nthat primarily you were self-taught.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So going back once again to your teaching, how do you feel\nabout jazz being taught in school? There seems to be a little bit of a trend\nright now with junior arts jazz programs, and some others that I've noticed in\ndifferent magazines that seem to be popping up, and now Peabody. How do you feel\nabout that? Considering that jazz, for the most part, was something that you\ncould primarily do by listening.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't have a problem with the fact that it's being taught in\nschools, but what generally happens when you teach things in school is that\npeople take an assembly line approach to dealing with things. Say for instance,\nI'm a saxophone teacher, and I get five saxophone students. And then I teach\nthem all the same things. No matter what they do, no matter where they seem like\nthey're headed, I'll teach them all the same things. But that's not the way that\nI like to deal with things. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1800.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The assembly line approach is that you just give\nthem all the same information, and what generally happens is, they'll all come\nout sounding pretty much the same. What I like to try to do is, maybe listen to\nthe student, and talk to them some and find out where they're headed. And see if\nI can devise some kind of program geared towards what they're trying to do. In\norder to make this whole school or institutionalized way of teaching jazz work,\nyou have to still pay attention to the individual and the individual's needs.\nBecause it becomes too easy to just give everybody the same information.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: The program at Peabody, the jazz program, is pretty small. Do\nyou hope to keep the numbers close to the way they are? Do you want the numbers\nto get really big? I would assume now that you may have twenty students for next year.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know. I know we have fourteen this year, and I have gotten\nconfirmation from at least four people who said that they're coming. I haven't\nheard from the others. (It's still before the deadline.) We're probably going to\nhave at least six or seven of the people who auditioned, maybe even more. That's\nbeing a little less than optimistic, but I don't know. I'd like to have the\nnumbers around thirty or so. Thirty students. And that way, the students can get\na lot of attention from the teachers. Because we have eight teachers right now,\nand I would like to bring more teachers in. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=1920.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because the problem for me right now\nis that I think, in this first year, I've really had to spread myself too thin.\nI don't think the students have gotten the benefit of what I know, or what I can\ndo, just because I have to spend so much time doing different things.\n\nBecause I'm teaching saxophone lessons. I'm also running ensembles -- a small\nensemble, a large ensemble. I'm trying to play administrator. I'm also teaching\nimprov classes and everything else.\n\nI'm sort of like a tour guide when people need to come here, when students want\nto look around. If I can find a way, or get the opportunity to delegate some of\nthose tasks, I think that the program can really be happening because we can all\nspend a lot of time working with the students, and I won't have to spend so much\ntime trying to figure out how I'm going to do everything that I have to do.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: And finally, where do you see your career going, and what do\nyou hope to ultimately accomplish in your art, meaning, any more recordings in\nthe future?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, I want to do some other recordings. I don't know what the\nmusic will be like. And I like teaching, so I think I'll probably be here, or\nsomewhere else if they kick me out of here. Actually, I love teaching, so this\nis what I think I'd like to do for the remainder of my time here. And in the\nmeantime, I'd like to also take advantage of the other parts of this\nconservatory. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2040.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"People in the composition department seem like they're really\ninterested in what's going on in the jazz studies program, and maybe I'd like to\nform some alliances with other people who do other types of music that maybe I'm\nnot so familiar with.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Because right now, I think I remember reading or hearing that\nthere were going to be opportunities to major in jazz composition or jazz\narranging at Peabody. What are the different options, or what are the majors\nthat you offer at Peabody right now?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Just performance. I mean I'd like to, at some point or another,\noffer jazz composition and maybe even a master's degree. Right now, you have the\nopportunity to get a bachelor's in performance, or a GPD [graduate performance\ndiploma] in performance. But all of that takes time, just like it took about six\nyears to get the bachelor's established.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: And finally, about the music. Being in the position to educate\nyoung musicians, where do you see the future of jazz?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I'm hoping that it will be what it used to be -- music that's been\ninfluenced by some of everything. I've been in groups with rappers, I've been in\ngroups where the settings have been more like a more conventional jazz setting.\nI've been in quintets, quartets, octets, big bands. Big bands that might have\nstrange instrumentations. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2160.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's where I'd like to see it go. I'd like to see\nmusic flourish without the boundaries. Or the categories.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Would you put your music in a category of jazz?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I like to see it in the category of music. Not jazz, not classical,\nbecause I think that's the problem with music in general. They start defining\nthese boundaries, and if you play jazz, and then you add something, if you add a\nrapper, then it's not jazz anymore. But then, what is it? It's just music. And\nthat's what I'd like to see.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Well, thank you for your time.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Thank you.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: This has been Gary Thomas and Delandria Mills, interviewer.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Daniel Gary Thomas.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Daniel Gary Thomas.\n\nGARY THOMAS: My father's name was Daniel, too.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Oh, yeah, I forgot.\n\nGARY THOMAS: But he didn't have Gary in the middle.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: He was just Daniel Thomas?\n\nGARY THOMAS: He was just Daniel Thomas.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: But you got Gary.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How did you get Gary?\n\nGARY THOMAS: My mother wanted me to have Gary. I don't think they liked the idea\nof a junior.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Oh. But she didn't win in having Gary first. She couldn't have\nGary Daniel.\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, because it was supposed to be Daniel Nathaniel. Really. Well,\nbecause my father's favorite brother's name was Nathaniel. They wanted to name\nme Daniel, and they wanted to name me Nathaniel also. And my mother said, \"No,\nthat's not going to happen. Because they'll tease that boy in school.\" Daniel Nathaniel.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Well, you got a winning name. Daniel Gary Thomas.\n\nGARY THOMAS: That's a winning name?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Yeah, it's a winning name.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Why?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Because --\n\nGARY THOMAS: You're just making up stuff. [Laughter]\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2280.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Concludes this session. Thank you very much.\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, it's not over.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Why? I mean, it's not?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Uh-uh.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You have something you'd like to add?\n\nGARY THOMAS: You've got to ask more questions.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Why do you wear black?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Because I like black.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: There you go. Some students feel that you have better posture\nthan all of the vocal coaches combined. Why do you think that is?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know. Maybe because my back hurts all the time. Not really.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not really?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. What students feel like that?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Vocal students.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Really?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Yes. They mention that you have great posture.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I never thought about it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Don't think on it too hard, because then you might mess it up.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I was in the boy scouts.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Maybe that's what did it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You think that influenced your music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: [Laughs] Yeah, those merit badges. I had a music merit badge too.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really? Wow. So, when were you a boy scout?\n\nGARY THOMAS: When I was about thirteen or fourteen.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: For just like a year or two.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I think about two years or so.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Any significant experience?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I had to learn how to swim. And I hate it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Can you swim now?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What's your favorite color?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Black. Although they say that's not a color.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What are your hobbies?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Hobbies? Reading, and weightlifting.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What type of things do you like to read?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't want to talk about that.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Books on weightlifting? [Laughter]\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. Actually, cooking.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really!\n\nGARY THOMAS: That's one of my big loves. But that's because I love to eat. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2400.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nhave to love to cook, because nobody else will cook for me that much.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Any pets?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Why not?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Because I'm allergic to everything.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Wow.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you ever have a pet?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. Fish.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What was its name?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, I had multiple fish. I don't know whether it was a his [sic] or\n-- A small lobster. I had a little lobster. It was about that big. And they were\nsaltwater fish.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Come on, you can't think of anything else?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you ever have a desire to live in Europe?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Oh no.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: But you've been there many times.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Do you really like to visit?\n\nGARY THOMAS: You know, I think I'm just tired. I might enjoy visiting Europe if\nI didn't have to go to work. I go to Europe to work most times. If I didn't have\nto go to work, if I could just go and hang, then I would probably have a desire\nto go there.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Have you ever just gone there to hang?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. There have been some times when I went there, like Paris, for a\nfew gigs, and I would stay for maybe five or six days. Which is really nice,\nbecause you do get a chance to see what things are about. I've been in Germany a\ncouple times and stayed for a while.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Can you speak the languages pretty fluently?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How long of a period of time have you been going back and forth\nto there? A little over a decade?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, it's been at least sixteen years.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2520.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, that's right. With Jack DeJohnette.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. Up until this year, it's sort of normal for me to go back and\nforth to Europe somewhere between ten to twelve times a year. Maybe even more.\nSometimes it might be for eight weeks, sometimes for two days. I remember once\ngoing on January 1st, and Tim Murphy was with me on both days. January 1st, we\ngot on the plane, and flew to Europe. And we played on January 2nd and then on\nJanuary 3rd, we flew back. We played in Germany at the Cologne Philharmonic, and\nwe played a duo thing. And we came back the next day, and then we got on a plane\nthe next day to go to Japan.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: That was of this year?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, it wasn't in this year. Maybe it was '92? Yeah, I believe it\nwas 1992. Got on a plane on the first, flew to Germany. Played on the second,\nflew back on the third, got on a plane on the fourth, and flew to Japan.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How did you play?\n\nGARY THOMAS: You mean, was I good?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I mean, could you physically play exceptionally?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, you have to do it. You get used to things like that. I think\nanybody can do it. It's just that sometimes people get used to certain kinds of\nconditions, and then they make excuses.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: They don't adapt. They make excuses.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I think anybody has the capacity to do those kinds of things. It's\njust a matter of whether you want to do them or not. And it's also about what\nyou get used to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2640.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing. We don't get pampered all the time, so we don't need that.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Considering the fact that jazz musicians are on the go a lot,\nand playing often to keep chops up, or to build vocabulary is vital, how do you\nsuppose jazz musicians can have a personal life, can have a family?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Have a family?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Do you see that often?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really?\n\nGARY THOMAS: A lot of jazz musicians have families.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Would you say that they are, maybe off the record --\n\nGARY THOMAS: It doesn't have to be off the record. What do you want to say?\nDysfunctional? [Laughter]\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Would you say that one, they're dysfunctional, or would you say\nthat those tend to be the jazz musicians that aren't strong musicians?\n\nGARY THOMAS: What, who have families?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Yeah, the ones that have families.\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, uh-uh. I don't know. The numbers of jazz musicians that have\nfamilies, and who have good family lives are probably relative to the numbers of\npeople who, in the general population, have families, and normal lives. Or\nfunctional family lives. Because you see some of everything. You see some people\nwho go on the road, and they fool around all the time. Then you see some who are\njust straight up, and that's that. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2760.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then you see people who aren't on the\nroad, doing everything they can possibly do.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What do you mean?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Like the accountant down the street, or the person who's not\ntraveling all the time.\n\nBecause jazz musicians get saddled with this tag of being philanderers. I've\nheard that a lot -- [they] just fool around.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I forgot to ask you who your first student was. Was Dontae your\nfirst primary student?\n\nGARY THOMAS: The first person that I gave a real lesson to was Antonio Hart, I think.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How did you meet? Did he approach you?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. He was going to the [Baltimore] School for the Arts, and I\nwas playing at the Eubie Blake Center with a piano player named Rashid Yahya. It\nwas Rashid Yahya and Carl Grubbs on that gig. And he came in, and he heard the\nconcert, and he asked me if I'd give him a lesson.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What year was he at the School for the Arts?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I believe he was in his final year, because I think he was talking\nabout going to Berklee [College of Music].\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So, it was just for that year that he studied with you?\n\nGARY THOMAS: It was just one lesson.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Oh. But was there something about teaching him at that time\nthat prompted you to maybe consider teaching later, or were there other students\nbetween him and Dontae?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, not really, because I don't think I've ever really had a steady\nstudent. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=2880.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499/transcript/39217/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've had people that sort of hung around, and we would talk about music\nand things. But it was never a thing where some guy would come to me every week\nfor lessons. It didn't work like that.[END PART 1]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117499#t=3000.0,3120.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - pims0091_ThomasG_200204-2_01.mp3"]},"duration":2573.0351,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/500/small/Thomas_Gary_photoshop_jpeg.jpg?1649797093","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/500/original/pims0091_ThomasG_200204-2_01.mp3?1624270989","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2573.0351,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["ThomasG_200204_2_OHMS_20220804 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GARY THOMAS: I've worked with different people. There's another saxophone player\nthat I worked with named Patrick Kennedy and Isaac Parham. I always avoided the\nthing of teaching private lessons because I don't like the idea of people coming\nand you give them a bunch of information and they come back unprepared the next\nweek, so I didn't do it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: As a touring musician, would you say you had time to go to the\nmovies a lot, or what did you do for fun outside of jazz? For like the past\ntwenty years? Would you say that you go home and just turn on the TV? Because I\nfind that a lot of jazz musicians get obsessed with just practicing and watching\nmore videos on practicing when they're too tired to practice.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Which jazz musicians are you talking about?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I've just heard. I guess in the beginning stages it's all about\nlistening and transcribing and doing more listening. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=0.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm just curious. I've been\ntold that jazz musicians get kind of isolated, and they just talk about the\nmusic and just live the music, and maybe these are some of the reasons why many\ndon't get married or they're unhappy or lonely. I was just curious as to what\nyour experience has been. Would you say that you are pretty much cut off from\nthe world? Do you ever think about it?\n\nGARY THOMAS: [Laughter] No. I wouldn't say I was cut off from the world. I've\nactually always been in relationships, and they've been functional. I've never\nbeen one to just sort of cut a person off or shut a person off because I thought\nI needed to practice, or I felt like I needed to write a piece of music that I\nmight have heard in my dreams. Because I think that even if I play music, I'm a\nperson first and I'd rather deal with the people issue before I deal with the\nmusic issue. Because I'm not a musician. A lot of musicians or people who play\nmusic refer to themselves as musicians and I don't always try to refer to myself\nas a musician but as a person. Music is just what I do.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What's the difference?\n\nGARY THOMAS: What's the difference?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Between a musician and a person who plays music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=120.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Are you a musician? Is that how you wake up? When you wake up do\nyou think music? Is your every waking thought music? No, it isn't. What about\nthat plate of food sitting there? That's a people issue right there. That plate\nfull of food.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Interesting.\n\nGARY THOMAS: That's why I love cooking and that's why I also stayed out of New\nYork too, because I just didn't want to get tied up just completely into the\nmusical thing. Sometimes I get tired of it. I don't listen to music all of the\ntime. When I lived in New Jersey, my ex-girlfriend's sister would come by\nsometimes and she'd say, \"Look, why don't you have any music going on in here\nbecause I know you play music.\" Sometimes I just didn't want to hear it. It\ncould be great players, but I like quiet sometimes. Even driving back and forth\nbetween there and here, it's like a two-and-a-half-hour drive. Sometimes I'd\njust drive and think instead of listening -- sometimes mindlessly -- to music.\nI'd just turn it off. In other words, although I love doing it, I don't feel\nlike I need that to exist. I could do something else and be happy.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Like?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Being a fitness trainer, or maybe be a computer programmer.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=240.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You mentioned that twice so that would have been definitely\nyour second route.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know if that would have been it. But whatever I would do, I\nwould want to do it well.\n\nAnother question? You're getting tired? I'm talking too much.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Are you left-handed or right-handed?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Right-handed.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I can't think of another question.\n\nGARY THOMAS: You can't? Ask about my mother.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Tell me about your mother.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Like what? My mother is less than 5 feet tall.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay. What is her name?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Annie Thomas. I could tell you her middle name, but she'd beat the\nhell out of me.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What are her hobbies?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Her hobbies? [Laughs] I don't think mothers have hobbies. They\ncan't have hobbies. They've got to take care of us.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Right. Were you an only child?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. I have two sisters.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Older or younger?\n\nGARY THOMAS: One older and one younger. I had a younger brother, but he was in\nthe military and got killed. He was two years younger than I am.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You said your sisters were older.\n\nGARY THOMAS: One sister is three years older. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=360.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other one's a younger sister.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So, tell me more about Annie. What does she do? What is her profession?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I think her real job was taking care of my father.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not the kids?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, that's a given. She had to take care of the kids. I think she\nloved doing it although she didn't act like it. That's a lie. She loved taking\ncare of us.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So [she's] less than 5 foot tall and you're pretty tall. So,\nyour dad had to be huge.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I think I might have him by a couple of inches, but all of the men\non my father's side of the family were tall with the exception of one. There\nwere twelve children in his family. Six guys and six girls and the same for my\nmother, except there were two girls and ten guys.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Wow. Where is your family from?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Here.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: All of them?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, my father's from here. My mother is from North Carolina. I\ncan't think of the name of the city now.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: In North Carolina?\n\nGARY THOMAS: It will come to me tomorrow. You can't think of anything, so you\njust want me to run my mouth? About what? Just pick a topic.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: The weather.\n\nGARY THOMAS: The weather? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=480.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No. I don't want to talk about the weather.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Composers or maybe classical composers that influenced your\njazz. Were you influenced by classical music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you study classical music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. If you go to Howard University, you have to. Although they\nsay they have a jazz studies program, they don't. When I went to Howard instead\nof studying jazz saxophone, I had to study classical saxophone.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I thought they had a jazz program.\n\nGARY THOMAS: They do. I don't know now, but they had a jazz studies program or a\nbig band, but the foundation for the program was pretty much all classical\ntraining with theory and everything else.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You mentioned Greg Osby and Wallace Roney. These are guys that\nyou met at Howard. What were they majoring in?\n\nGARY THOMAS: We were all jazz studies majors. Greg, Jerry Allen. There was a\nbass player who played with Billy Harper for a long time -- Clarence Seay.\nTrombonist Chuck Royal. I am sure there were some other people who went through\nthere, but my memory is getting a little foggy now. I think I have\n\n Alzheimer's.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Don't say that!\n\nGARY THOMAS: Or maybe mad cow [disease].\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Okay, that's better.\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, it isn't.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=600.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What is mad cow disease?\n\nGARY THOMAS: The brain starts wasting away and it doesn't stop.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So, did your parents play instruments at all?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. My father sang in church. What else do you want to know? I\ncan't think of any musicians in the family or at least people who played instruments.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did your sisters explore the arts at all?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, I was an oddball.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You mentioned earlier that you practiced for like eight hours\nfor years whenever you could fit it in. How many years?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Maybe about four years.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: When would you say you got comfortable with your playing? Not\ncomfortable, but -- When did you get to the point where you didn't need to\npractice as much but you felt settled in your playing, in your voice as a\nmusician. Like, the things that you meant to say were coming out. Is that too vague?\n\nGARY THOMAS: It is not too vague. That hasn't happened yet.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Really?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Really.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Do you think it will?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So, when did you get comfortable with the idea that you were\nnot going to settle into perfection as a jazz musician?\n\nGARY THOMAS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=720.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do you mean by perfection though?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Well, I think as a jazz musician you are constantly expanding\nthe music or expanding your language or your vocabulary. When did you get to the\npoint where you were not striving for something, but you kind of settled in with\nyour own vocabulary and sound, tone, language, and just build on it little by\nlittle instead of building on it a lot?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't think I've ever been comfortable with that idea or, you\nknow what it is? I think I've settled with the fact that you never get to where\nyou really want to be. I'm just happy about just the notion of knowing that\nthere's always something more to learn, and something more to deal with. I just\nlike the idea of just trying to find new things to deal with. I get bored too\neasily also. It's perfect for me. You can't learn it all. There's always\nsomething for me to fiddle with and something new to find out.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Have you ever met any jazz musicians who got burned out?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Many?\n\nGARY THOMAS: When you say burned out, just tired? Tired of playing?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not tired of playing.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Complacent?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not complacent. Definitely not complacent, but after striving\nso long and not getting comfortable with their art and just burned out of it.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Give up you mean?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I guess give up.\n\nGARY THOMAS: There are a lot of people who give up. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=840.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"See them every day. Like the\nones who you think might, when you hear them early on, have a lot of potential,\nand you hear them like twenty years later and they still sound like they have a\nlot of potential, which is a different thing twenty years later. Yeah, I've run\ninto a lot of people who have given up but then there are a lot of people who\nsort of feel the same way about it as I do. They are excited about the prospect\nof learning something new all the time.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Why do you suspect that some people burn out?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I think they burn out because maybe they 're just not cut out to do\nit. I mean it is an odd thing to be a musician, to want to go into a room and\npractice for eight hours and not deal with -- Like when I was in college, I\nwould go and practice and a lot of other people would go and study for a couple\nof hours and then they'd go out and hang out at parties. It's a different kind\nof person who wants to do that. I can't say that practicing is fun but it's just\nsomething that I felt like I needed to do.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So no regrets?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, not really. I can't think of any. Because playing the saxophone\nor playing the flute or whatever, I've met a lot of people that I would have\nnever met and formed alliances ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=960.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and have friends I know I would never have had\nthe pleasure of meeting. Take for instance, Dontae Winslow or Whit Williams.\nEven some of the students who are here at Peabody. That would never have\nhappened had I become a computer programmer. Or maybe I might have run into a\nperson here or there, but it wouldn't have been the same thing.\n\nAre you shaking your head so I can shut up now? I think you're done because you\ncan't think of anything else.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you ever think to write a book?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I am going to write a book.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Have you started?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, not yet, but I've begun compiling information.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What type of book? Jazz theory?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't know yet. This is going on the web for everybody to see,\nright? Well, a few\n\nyears ago I thought about writing or compiling a book of all the things that\npeople have said to me at Peabody that I didn't find so pleasing to hear.\nThere's been a lot of things. Just so that people could see what other people\nthink about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1080.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"jazz musicians, or how people who improvise get along when they play.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did you ever feel you had a double whammy because you were\nBlack and a jazz musician? Or is jazz musician enough?\n\nGARY THOMAS: You mean being at Peabody?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Yeah.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. That's obvious. You walk into Peabody; you can see that. You\nlook around you and you can see that that can be a problem. I mean, look at the\nfaculty. Look at the numbers of students here. I am sure it is in the process of\nchanging. I've had a lot of different things happen. Should I be talking about\nthis here? I'm sure you've probably had the same thing happen. Say for instance,\nbefore they changed the guard situation, I'd walk up to a door and watch people\nopen the door for somebody else but as soon as they'd see me coming, they let\nthe door shut because they don't think that maybe I belong here.\n\nOne night I was sitting in that Nation's Bank Lounge because I had some grades,\nand I was going to turn them in. It was late. I tend to hang out here late\nbecause after classes are over, I still need to practice. Because I guess if I\nlet my playing thing go down, the students that I have probably won't respect\nme, and I don't blame them. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1200.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you're learning something from somebody you\nreally like to know they can do it too. But anyway, I'm sitting up there,\nleafing through my grades, trying to get them in order and then this student\nwalks by. The funny thing about it is that he is a minority also. He walks by\nand he stops and looks at me and then he walks a few more steps and then he\nstopped again. Then he said, \"Excuse me, what are you doing here?\" So I said,\n\"I'm a teacher.\" He just stood there for a second and he looked at me and walked\noff and I saw him stop again and he turned back and looked at me, and I thought\nhe was going to go down to the guards and just tell.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Was that this year?\n\nGARY THOMAS: It was last year. I had somebody else. I parked in the garage and I\nwent through that entrance that leads into the building towards where the dance\nstudios are. And this woman -- I don't even know who the woman was -- when she\nsaw the door open, she just turned around and headed the other way, instantly.\nAnd then I think she probably stopped and thought about it and figured, okay, he\nhas a badge, that's how he got in here. I could go on and on.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How does that feel? I won't even give you anything to start\nwith. How does that feel and how have you dealt with it and how do you deal with\nit now? Because I'm sure it's been going on for a while.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I mean the bottom line is that it is just ignorance ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1320.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it's\nnot my problem. Although, when that woman turned and she headed the other way, I\nalmost felt like it was my obligation to make her feel comfortable when she came\nback the other way.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Almost.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. There were a couple of other students here a few years ago.\nOne guy told me about this -- he said that it was one of the saxophone students.\nHis description of me was \"this big Black guy around here who looks like he'll\nkick your ass.\" He said, \"Have you seen the director of the jazz studies\nprogram?\" He said \"No, I haven't seen him yet.\" He said, \"Well, he's the big\nBlack guy that looks like he'll kick your ass.\"\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How did you find that out?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Oh, I had another student who was more like an informant. And then\nyou hear things. You hear a lot of things, and it's not that I accept it, but\nyou find out that those things happen. There's no way around it. It happens\neverywhere you go.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I notice that you let a lot of things roll off your back. When\nsomeone mentioned that they didn't particularly care for the faculty concert,\nyou didn't blink. Were you always that way to how people receive your music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I haven't always been that way, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1440.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but I've learned to be that way. In\nthat case, I'm sure that it was probably a student who said they didn't enjoy\nthe faculty concert. That doesn't matter that much to me because they probably\ndon't know enough about music to make that kind of a judgement. And then, maybe\nthey don't even know what we were trying to get to. If you are listening to some\nmusic, you don't always know what a person is trying to get to. I think all of\nthe faculty members were pretty happened with what happened, which means more to\nme than what another student might say. That doesn't really affect my judgement\non the whole thing either -- If I stood there and I enjoyed the whole thing and\nthe rest of the faculty members hated it, I mean, so be it. I enjoyed it.\nBecause we don't all have the same taste in music, and once you realize that\nthen things will be a lot easier. Everybody is not going to like what you do.\nSometimes people will hate it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I've heard you're very health conscious.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I try to be.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: When did that start?\n\nGARY THOMAS: That started a long time ago.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Teenage years?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I wouldn't say teenage years. I've had my share of Big Macs, french fries.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You say that as though you don't eat those now.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I'll eat them once and a while, yeah.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Are you vegetarian?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1560.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I do something like eating beef or eating pork or whatever,\nI do it in moderation. You don't see me eating a big fried pork chop three or\nfour times a day, every day. I'm not going to do that.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What would you say your diet consists of? And it seems to me\nthat you put in a lot of time into your weight training, so how do you balance\nyour weight training and your music? After you talk about your diet.\n\nGARY THOMAS: When I'm on a good schedule I usually try to take in about six\nmeals a day and three of those meals are like protein shakes with maybe fruit\nand some soy milk and things like that. Flax seed oil. The other meals could be\na combination of anything. Some days I don't eat really great. I might sit up\nand eat burgers all day long, but I don't do that all the time. I'll go around\nthe corner sometimes and go to the sub shop and get a big steak sub with all the grease.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Occasionally.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. I don't like to deprive myself all the time.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: How do you balance weight training and music?\n\nGARY THOMAS: If you think about it, there isn't that much to balance. I might\nwork out like four hours a week, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1680.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"maybe. Because usually when I work out, I try\nto get in there and get it over with. That's\n\nthe best way to do it. Get in there to work forty-five minutes to an hour. I see\npeople who go to the gym, and they'll stay there for two hours but sometimes you\nsee them talking to other people. I'll just go and leave, so it doesn't take\nmuch time at all. And then I keep equipment at home too, so if things get\nreally, really tight for me, then I have everything around me so that I can do\nwhat I need to do. The thing about just being health conscious and taking care\nof yourself is, you know, you only get one body, so it's best to take care of it.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Would you say that you started to be more health conscious\nbecause of your travelling, because of your rigorous schedule? or was this just\na decision that you made one day?\n\nGARY THOMAS: You know what it is? I had a friend. His name was Joe Lee\n[phonetic]. We used to hang out at this club called The Closet and one day we\njust started talking about going to the gym. And I think I might have been about\ntwenty-three or twenty-four. We decided to go to the gym, and it was just\nsomething that stuck.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Did he continue to go?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No. That's just the same thing that happened with me and music. I\nhad a friend and he wanted to go and get into the band, and I figured I'd go\nwith him and it just stuck.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What's your sign?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Gemini.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Usually gregarious people. Like to be buddies, to couple off.\n\nGARY THOMAS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1800.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Geminis? You think so? Who told you that?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Another Gemini. I observed it about the person before they said\nanything. Because every time it was time to do something in her life, she needed\nsomebody to do it with. Shopping -- \"You want to go shopping?\" \"Not really.\"\n\"Oh, I guess I'll go tomorrow. You feel like going tomorrow?\" \"No.\"\n\nGARY THOMAS: But if you're a Gemini you're already paired off.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: [Laughs] In your head.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah. No, I do a lot of stuff alone, but then that's a musician\nthing. You have to get used to doing things alone, like practicing. I mean it's\ngood playing with people sometimes, but some of it you just can't get together\nwith somebody else sitting next to you.\n\n [INTERRUPTION]\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You own a home?\n\nGARY THOMAS: No.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Desire?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Of course.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Soon?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Maybe. I guess it depends on whether or not I'm going to stay here.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=1920.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have plans of possibly not staying here?\n\nGARY THOMAS: This program has only been running for a year. It would be silly\nfor me to consider that it is definitely going to happen. We don't know what's\nhappening yet. It's the first year and we'll see what happens next year. If it\nlooks like I'm going to be here I'd really love to have a place here, because I\njust moved back down here from Jersey two years ago. I mean while I was trying\nto get this together it just kind of felt like I was in limbo because I was\nhoping that this would happen, and it did. So if it looks like it is going to be\na permanent thing then I will. And I always thought that maybe I wouldn't enjoy\nliving downtown, but I actually like it a lot. So maybe I'll try to find\nsomething around here.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Do you have any other talents? Do you draw?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Do I draw? No. I used to. Cooking. The Essence of Emeril. You don't\nwatch that cooking show?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I've heard of him. Emeril Lagasse?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, I want to go to the show. I want to be in the studio audience.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Interesting.\n\nGARY THOMAS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=2040.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I really love cooking.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: I hate it.\n\nGARY THOMAS: You hate it? Do you like to eat?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: A little bit. [Laughter]\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, if you like to eat, then you better learn how to love\ncooking. All right. I think you shut down, didn't you?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: A long time ago. As long as you are full of thoughts, though.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I'm hungry now, so I've got to go.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Well, finally, what is your philosophy on life?\n\nGARY THOMAS: My philosophy on life?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: What do you hope your legacy will be? Not to rush you out of here.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Wait a minute. Did you sit around and try to think of these\nquestions to ask at the end of the interview?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: No.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Somewhere, at some point in the interview, you wanted to ask those questions.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Not really, but I knew I wanted to have some field of closure.\n\nGARY THOMAS: I'm hungry. That's all the closure you need. [Laughs] What kind of\nphilosophy on life?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: You know what I mean. For instance, you could have chosen\ncomputer programming, but you chose jazz. I can't really say jazz, but I will\nsay music. So?\n\nGARY THOMAS: I don't think I have a philosophy on life. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=2160.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Even right now, that's\ntoo profound a question for me to answer. Because I'm a very simple person.\n[Laughter] Yeah. I'm a very simple person. Wait a minute. I think I may have\nsomething here. No, I don't. I'm hungry. You shouldn't have done this interview.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Why?\n\nGARY THOMAS: Because I know you. And of course, you knew that the interview was\ngoing to get silly.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: It wasn't that silly. I think it went rather smoothly.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Really? So, you are happy with the results. You haven't listened to\nit yet. You don't have to put all of it on the web.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: No.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Like the people shutting the door when I was trying to get into Peabody.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: If you want that off --\n\nGARY THOMAS: No, you can leave it on. I think Elizabeth [Schaaf, former\narchivist] would like to have that too. She wants the truth. And you should have\nthe truth.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: So Baxter, he was instrumental in getting that done.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Yeah, and the funny thing is, we bumped heads a lot in the\nbeginning. I think we all did. And when it got around to the end, I think he was\nas big a part of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=2280.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"making this happen as anybody else.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Interesting how people come along to serve their purpose and\nthen they're gone.\n\nGARY THOMAS: Well, I think with him, I don't think he realized -- like with a\nlot of people, they don't realize -- that sometimes, jazz musicians, or people\nwho play this kind of music are actually virtuosos also. So, I think at the\nbeginning, he was probably more concerned with dealing with some quality\ncontrol. I think he thought, like a lot of people think, that we were bringing\nin music of a lesser quality, which is not really the case. And I've heard some\nthings. and I won't say those things, that some of the other students have said,\nwho have studied with some of the other faculty members and have had the\nopportunity to study with the other faculty members and the jazz studies faculty\nmembers. All I can say is that we have quality teachers here. Not just teachers,\nbut great performers too. Or musicians -- they're great musicians.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Financially, does it seem that Peabody is opening the doors to\nallow more talented jazz musicians to come in?\n\nGARY THOMAS: To play or teach?\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: To play -- to study. Do you see the funds being dispersed to\nthe jazz program?\n\nGARY THOMAS: For scholarships? The first year, we got a few, but I think this\nyear ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=2400.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500/transcript/39218/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's every person for themselves. There's been a lot of students who have\ncomplained about not getting any kind of aid, but I guess that's the way it is\nfor most students around here right now.\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Definitely. It has been a pleasure.\n\nGARY THOMAS: It has been? Yeah, it's been a pleasure for me too. [Laughs]\n\nDELANDRIA MILLS: Thank you very much for your time. Have a good dinner.\n\n[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44171/file/117500#t=2520.0,2640.0"}]}]}]}