{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/iiif/804xg9ft50/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Alfred E. Prettyman oral history, 1996 October 11"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":[" Alfred E. Prettyman is a book publisher and college professor. He is the son of Edward Prettyman, a trumpeter and the conductor of the Colored Park Band of Baltimore. Alfred played a large role in changing the content of high school and college textbooks to include African Americans and Native Americans. He is the co-founder of Emerson Hall Publishers and the Society for the Study of Africana Philosophy. In this interview with Elizabeth Schaaf, he discusses his family's activity in the Baltimore music scene, including Edward Prettyman's work with composer and educator A. Jack Thomas. (Abstract)"," Poor audio quality and low levels present on source media. Beginning of interview missing. (Physical Description)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":[" 1996-10-11 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":[" Prettyman, Alfred E., 1935- (Interviewee)"," Schaaf, Elizabeth M. (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":[" English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://aspace.library.jhu.edu/repositories/4/archival_objects/215387"]}}],"summary":{"en":[" Alfred E. Prettyman is a book publisher and college professor. He is the son of Edward Prettyman, a trumpeter and the conductor of the Colored Park Band of Baltimore. Alfred played a large role in changing the content of high school and college textbooks to include African Americans and Native Americans. He is the co-founder of Emerson Hall Publishers and the Society for the Study of Africana Philosophy. In this interview with Elizabeth Schaaf, he discusses his family's activity in the Baltimore music scene, including Edward Prettyman's work with composer and educator A. Jack Thomas."," Poor audio quality and low levels present on source media. Beginning of interview missing."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/484/small/data?1651087462","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - pims0091_PrettymanA_01.mp3"]},"duration":3782.03429,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/484/small/data?1651087462","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/484/original/pims0091_PrettymanA_01.mp3?1624270960","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3782.03429,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["PrettymanA_1_OHMS_20220729 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ELIZABETH SCHAAF: There were five of you?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes, my sister Sara, who was the oldest, my brother Edward,\nwho was the next oldest. Three years difference between Edward and Charles,\nthree years difference between Charles and Alfred, and three years difference\nbetween Alfred and Bernard. Organized woman, wasn't she?\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not too many in college at once.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: So Charles and I are the only ones living.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Sara was also a musician. A very good singer, wasn't she?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes, indeed, she was. She left Baltimore with the\nencouragement of my father to come to New York to study music at NYU. There was\na voice teacher she had been coming to New York to study with.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: You also are interested in music? You have a tenor or baritone voice?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I haven't the slightest interest at all. I don't get along\nwith music or musicians. No, that's not true. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have been a singer since I was\nin junior high school, which is when I started singing. I was not expected to\nsing. My sister was a singer, my next older brother, Charles, was a singer, he\nwas in one of the first doo-wop groups called The Flames, which was a very\npopular group around Douglass High School and various spots in Baltimore. That\ngroup was singing from the late '40s, early 1950s, between '49 and '52.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What precipitated his turning away from all of that, or did he?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He didn't. He went to college.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Your father was born out in rural Howard County?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was the nearest town to them?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Daisy, Maryland.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Mr. [Eugene] Prettyman was telling me about listening to the\nmusic in the churches as a boy and how important that was and how it helped him\nto learn to read music. He was talking about how they would read through the\nmusic and just sing the names of the notes. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had fond recollections of all of that.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He probably told you a lot of things that I don't know.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Well, I don't know. Tell me some stories about your father.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Oh, heavens! Let me start with this one. My father could play\nwell the cornet, the trumpet and, less well, the violin. His best instrument was\nthe cornet. He loved the cornet. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have wonderful and poignant memories playing\nthe cornet in the basement. There is a kitchen in the houses in Baltimore -- You\ncome in off the street. We were on Schroeder Street. You would come in from the\nstreet into the basement which was where the kitchen was. Then there was the\nlaundry room, the furnace room and in that room before there was the furnace,\nthat is where we used to cook on a coal and wood stove. Now my father would come\ndown there to play, actually, because the children were annoyed by the playing.\nSo he would go down and shut himself in this room. I remember the piece he\npracticed. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was \"Prince of the Waves,\" a very famous work that everybody who\nplays trumpet learns.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Who were his teachers?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know who his teachers were as a child. I have no idea\nwho they were. But as a young man, he attended the Aeolian Conservatory. I am\nsure you have heard of the Aeolian Conservatory.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: A. Jack Thomas. Mr. Music.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: And so Jack was both his mentor and friend. They were very\nclose friends.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I was just delighted to find out that he was your godfather.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I am named after A. Jack Thomas. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He suppressed Alfred. Why\nwould somebody suppress Alfred and use Jack? I could never figure that out.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When did he begin studying with A. Jack Thomas?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know. It may have been right after or shortly before\nthe end of World War I because he told a story of seeing the troops come back\nfrom Europe and seeing in Baltimore the President review the troops returning.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He described Jim Europe's band, his marching Army band, and how smart they were\nand how transfixed he was by them. Now, he may well have already been studying\nwith Jack by then because by the time, as early as 1921, Daddy was leading the\nMasonic Concert Band. I am sure that prior to that he must have been studying\nwith Jack or someone.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I just learned that on the other side of the Park Band bass\ndrum is painted \"The Masonic Band.\"\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Right. He kept his concert band. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a 33rd-degree Mason by\nthe time he was twenty-one.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: After working with Thomas, he organized the Masonic Band -- or\nwhile he was still working with Thomas.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He was probably still working with Thomas.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He was evidently quite an accomplished musician. I think half\nthe population of the city must have been studying with him. How do you remember\nhim? What is your earliest recollection?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Jack was a wonderfully genial man. He was very warm, very\nspontaneous. He was, as my mother would say, very down to earth. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He and his wife\nand my mother and my father got along very well.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Also, your father's colleague, Mr. [Charles E.] Gwynn, he was\nyour father's assistant. Was he part of that group?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: The band?\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Your parents' and the Thomas' social group.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Sure. They all socialized. The women got together and\ncomplained about the men. They were all very close. It was a community.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a wonderful article in one of the scrapbooks that\nwas maintained for Fred Huber who was the manager of the Baltimore Symphony\nOrchestra until it folded in 1941. He took credit for forming your father's\nband. Fred Huber took credit for an awful lot of things he didn't do and I had a\nfeeling that this band was another one of those things that he didn't do.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I would bet on it for a compelling reason. These men were in\nthis band to no small degree because of their absolute devotion to my father. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nam sure they were all from the neighborhood. They were from the Masons and as\ntime went on, from the National Guard. They were people who worked the same\nplace that he worked. One of them was the fish man who came along the street in\nhis cart and sold fish. These were community people. Someone from outside of the\ncommunity could not have organized that band.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What precipitated the organization of the band? He had the\nnucleus -- or was the Masonic band the same band?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: The Masonic Band, did he establish it or was it active before\nhe took over?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know that it was active before he took over, but I\ncould not swear to it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would have to do a lot of digging and probably couldn't\nfind out.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Do you know how early he was working with the Masonic Band?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I think either 1918 or 1921. If it was 1918, then this is\nsomething that he was doing at the age of seventeen. His birthday was September\n7, 1901.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: The Masonic Band functioned as the city's park band. The\nrepertoire was wonderful. He was doing the realm of classical music and\nobviously the level of accomplishment of the band had to be fairly high. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Roy\nMcCoy was telling me how much it meant to him to perform in that band. He would\ngo over to the clubs and play jazz all night afterward. I expect he wasn't the\nonly one in the band who was doing that.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No, he wasn't.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did your father have any interest in the more popular music of\nhis time?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes. As a matter of fact, one segment of every park concert\nwas devoted to popular music. All the hits of the time were played. I can hear them.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What were the more popular pieces?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Oh, dear. \"My Buddy\" was one of them, especially during the\nwar. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All of the Duke Ellington numbers. \"Things Ain't What They Used to Be.\"\n\"Enjoy Yourself.\" \"It's Later Than You Think\" is one the audience always got a\nkick out of.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: The jazz part must have nettled Huber to no end because he\nforbade the band to play jazz and he just did it anyway.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes. My father was a stubborn man. I am surprised that Roy\nMcCoy didn't tell you that.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He did say that the men had great respect for him.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes, it's true.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: It didn't sound like there were a lot of discussions over\ninterpretation. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did he get all of his children involved in music as well?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: We were all involved because, to a greater or lesser degree,\nwe were not forced to be involved as a matter of fact. In a way, I have some\nregrets that my mother followed my wishes and allowed me to decline taking piano\nlessons -- not once, but four times. But we weren't forced to do any music. We\njust did. My oldest brother [Edward] played the sousaphone and the bass violin.\nMy brother Charles is the only one in the family who didn't have an instrument.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He sang. He was a chunk -- a big chunk. It was the only way you could compete\nwith my oldest brother, who was a jock and terrifically smart. My youngest\nbrother, Bernard, played clarinet. I played violin until my teacher, Mr. Davage,\ndiscovered that I was playing by ear and sent me home. He was a wonderful man --\na lovely, lovely man. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He talked to my father, explained what had happened, and\nmy father said, \"Mr. Davage has told me that if you will apologize, he will let\nyou come back into class.\" I proved myself to be my father's son. I never\nreturned to that class.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Where was Mr. Davage teaching?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He taught in his house on Edmondson Avenue, I think.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did you have much contact with W. Llewellyn Wilson?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was Mr. Wilson like?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Stuffy. Sweet, in a way, but stuffy. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wilson was head of the\nmusic department at Douglass [High School] forever. He led a series of massed\nbands and Ellis Larkins has a wonderful picture of one of those. As a matter of\nfact, the last time I saw Ellis, it was on his living room wall here in New\nYork. That was before he moved out of New York.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I always wondered about him because when -- there were a lot\nof Union problems with the bands and with the city and Wilson was vehemently\nopposed to the bands unionizing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It struck me as odd because there were a great\nmany professional musicians in those ensembles and they were union men. The\nunion was right to step in because the pay inequities between the White bands\nand the Black bands were terrible and they really did need the backing of the\nunion desperately and Wilson opposed them vehemently.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: And incurred the perpetual enmity of my father. My father was\na union man. He was a union organizer.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did he ever talk about his work with the union?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: You couldn't miss it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My father was for years the treasurer of\nthe Musicians' Union, which meant that, it being a segregated union, that when\nBlack groups came through town he had to meet with them to check whether their\ndues were paid. So we got to meet everybody who ever came to town.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: How wonderful.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: It was. It was terrific.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Now who were some of these folks?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Oh, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Lucky [Millinder], the Mills\nBrothers, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, Illinois Jacquet, Earl Williams. I\ncould go on.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Were they playing at the Royal [Theatre]?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: They were playing for the Royal.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just hearsay, someone told me that they thought that perhaps\none of the reasons why Wilson refused to back the men in the orchestra and the\npark bands is because he and Huber were so close and that he was driving for\nHuber, who didn't drive at all. By driving for Huber, he was able to meet the\nvisiting musicians who were coming into town with the Baltimore Symphony\nOrchestra and had he faced off on that issue, it probably would have been the\nend of his relationship with Huber.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: True. Wilson did a lot of good things, there's no need to be\nharsh about him, but he did value his singular position in the community of\nhaving access to, as he would say, \"people downtown.\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He wasn't the only one in\nthe community who behaved in that way. Unfortunately, the mold of engaging the\nBlack community was for too long to select one or two people for all of your\ncontacts and channel patronage through them and Wilson was jealous of his\npatronage. I don't know in any specific detail about his relationship with Huber\nbut I was told that he drove for Huber.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: It did seem odd to me that there were other people in the\ncommunity who were obviously better musicians.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, sure. Yes. That was part of the thing that irritated my\nfather so much. He felt that Wilson had a stranglehold on what happened in music\nfor the Black community for too long -- that he was jealous of his position to\nsuch a degree that he didn't encourage the development of independent talent.\nNow there are other people who will contradict that, I know, who are very\ngrateful to Wilson for a number of things he did for them. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I know, for example,\nthat my sister got along well with Wilson and as a matter of fact, he did an\nopera at Douglass in which she sang the soprano lead. For some reason I think it\nwas Fedora. Why did they do [Giordano's] Fedora at Douglass? She sang the lead.\nThat may be wrong. I'll have to go back and look. But there were a number of\npeople who found Wilson very, very helpful, younger people. I am sure that he\ngot along well with his peers. I know he didn't get along well with the kind of\nmen -- [DISTORTION] -- had around him.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did hear from the daughter of one of the musicians in the\nband that she had been given a scholarship to either study at the Peabody\nPreparatory -- My recollection was that it might have been at Peabody at the\nDruid Hill Park YMCA. But when the troubles with the union started erupting, and\nWilson was aware that her father was firmly behind the union and lobbying with\nthe rest of the men to go union, he had that scholarship taken away from her.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: That's not surprising. That wasn't unusual.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was actually taken aback because when you read through the\nWhite newspapers and the Afro [newspaper], you get the impression that Wilson\nwas the pivotal figure in the community.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Sure.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: But then, when you back up and start looking around, there are\npeople like [Charles] Harris, Thomas, and your father.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: And people like Ellis's father, Mr. Larkins. He was a big\ninfluence in that era.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: You obviously knew him. Can you tell me a little bit about him?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: About Ellis's father? I can tell you a little. Ellis's father\nwas a benign presence. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was one of those easy-going, easy-to-deal-with people.\nHe was basically a quiet man for all my knowledge of him. That is fundamentally\nmy memory of him, as a quiet man, a gentle man, as a self-contained man, which\nis not to say that he was inaccessible, but that he was not flamboyant.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: How long was your father active with the band? When did he\nstart withdrawing from the musical community and was it because he wanted to or\nwas health becoming a problem for him?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Neither. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a mass band concert with the two Black\nbands in Druid Hill Park. The person who had taken over music in Baltimore,\nwhose name was Bob Iula, was at the concert and was somewhat in his cups and\nbegan to come up to the bandstand and direct how the band should be seated. He\nhad a talk with my father and my father refused to listen to him. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He then went\nonto the bandstand himself and told the men where to sit, which was an affront.\nHe barely escaped with his life because my oldest brother was ready to kill him.\nI mean literally kill him. My father -- this was before the concert began that\nhe pulled this trick -- my father went onto the bandstand, told the musicians to\nreturn to their positions, and the concert proceeded with no further\ninterference from Bob Iula. But he had achieved his purpose. It was at that\npoint that he harassed my father, harassed city officials to relieve my father\nof the band.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He decided to just walk away from it.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He did not walk away. He was told that the band would be given\nto someone else.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Who took over from that point?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: That band was central to his life. It was his creation. It\nmust have been a devastating experience for him.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: It was.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did he try to find other outlets for his music?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He brought out the new Masonic Band [laughter], which was one of the\nbest damn bands he ever had. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember that was his best band. They paraded.\nThey did parades. They played in Masonic temples and at Masonic events around\nthe city and they would go to Philadelphia and Cincinnati and, oh, heaven knows\nwhere else. I don't remember.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He had them touring?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: It wasn't exactly touring. You would have conventions in the\nsummer and they would go to the conventions.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Was he active in the church musically?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My mother was. This was a very romantic combination, my\nmother and my father. She was a pianist and she was also an assistant director\nof two church choirs. Let's see if I can remember, one of them was down the\nblock and across the street from the house. Now why can't I remember the name of\nthat church? She played for the choir every Sunday and at times directed it.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was the address?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't remember.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What year was it? Down the street from where you were living\nand you were living on --\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Schroeder Street, and this was all through the '40s. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She also\nplayed for the Eastern Star.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Where did she study?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: She had private lessons for a number of years and she\nobviously was good enough to get a scholarship to Rochester, which she turned\ndown. The reason she turned down the scholarship to Rochester was not because\nshe didn't want to go, but her sister did not think she should go and was not\ngoing to support her. It wasn't that edgy, but my aunt Mae was a sweet person,\none of the dearest. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She just didn't encourage her.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Was she given a scholarship to Eastman?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes. Of course, Mae had become the mother of the family when\nmy grandmother died at a very early age. I think my mother was about ten when\nher mother died.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: How did she meet your father?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: They lived in the neighborhood on White Street. In the essay I\nwrote I mentioned that they moved into Baltimore -- I don't know whether I\nmentioned it or not or whether it was implied -- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but when Pa Gus [phonetic]\nmoved the family out of the county into the city to get more work, they moved to\nLight Street, which is where my mother and both of my aunts lived.\n\nMy father's mother also died when he was very young. It made an indelible\nimpression on him because he was with her when she died.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: They shared very similar backgrounds.\n\nA: No! Not similar backgrounds. [laughter] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They lived in the same block, he had\ncome from a rural environment, she was a city girl and her father and\ngrandfather had been in the catering business. As a matter of fact, her\ngrandfather had the catering concession at Pimlico and had a stall in Hollins\nMarket? Hollins Market and maybe Lafayette Market as well.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: They were fairly high up in the social hierarchy, I would\nimagine. Were the rural people who moved into the city regarded as less worthy,\nsocially? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2220.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would be surprised if that were the case with your family, having\nmet your uncle. He is a man of such dignity and such grace. I cannot imagine.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No, that wasn't the nature of the Black community. The Black\ncommunity was a community of all kinds of people. There wasn't this overt\nstratification as has developed. Within two blocks of our house, contiguous to\nour house, there were doctors, teachers, laborers, bankers, it was just\neverybody. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2280.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They lived all in a mix and there wasn't this sense of people being\nbetter because everybody comes through the Depression and there is a solidarity\nwithin the community. Of course, you would have people complain about people who\nthought they were better and acted like it, but basically it wasn't the ethos of\nthe community.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I'm interested to hear that because I was checking addresses\nof some of the people I was working on and it was just as you explained. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2340.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You\nwould see stevedores, pharmacists, and just everyone in the world scattered down\nDruid Hill Avenue and the side streets, and I was quite taken aback by that.\nThere does seem to be a very definite stratification now.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Oh, sure.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When do you think that started happening?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: There were always elements of the community who did think they\nwere better than everybody else. My uncle -- not my Uncle Eugene, but my Uncle\nCharles, after whom my brother Charles is named. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2400.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had a kind of Victorian\napproach to life -- having come from the island, he was infected with the\ndisease of the Empire. Everything that was good and excellent in life was\nBritish and everything that was most proper in life had to follow British\netiquette. There were a lot of people from the islands who were of that ilk and\nthey had a usual support system so, willy-nilly, they sorted themselves out into\na kind of special group. Not all of them, but some. Even within that group\nthere were tailors and shoemakers but they stuck together. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2460.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Perhaps the most\nobvious example of how the society claimed to value itself was when the doctors\ngot together and formed a social club which has as one of its major aims the\nbringing of young Black women out into society. So there were cotillions every\nyear. They were the big social event of the year for that time.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When did that begin to happen?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: After the war. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2520.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was after the war that I remember it but it\nmust have been going on during the war as well. I remember my sister \"coming\nout\" at one of these things. I speak of this with a great deal of irony because\nit always struck me as hilarious mimicry.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: They still do it.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I know! [Laughter]\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I've always had a difficult time understanding why anybody\nbothered to do it.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: My daughter wouldn't be caught dead at such a thing.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I think of a lot of the young women have taken that position.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2580.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You had mentioned the tuba player in your father's band.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Alvin Larkins.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Alvin Larkins went on to Seattle to play in the orchestra.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He was in the Navy. He married an Asian woman and they settled\nin Seattle and he became part of the musical community there.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Can you remember other people in the band who end up having\ncareers in music?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Charles Kemp was a classmate of mine who at a very early age.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2640.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was in high school that he began to play in my father's band. Charles's\ninstrument -- one of his instruments was the French horn. How do I remember\nthat? Because we both started taking French horn lessons. I'd forgotten about that.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: With whom were you studying?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know. I lasted about three months. My mother was\nafraid that I was going -- I had come off a hernia operation when I was twelve\nand my mother was afraid that I was going to re-injure myself from playing the\nhorn and my father said, as he usually said, \"leave him alone.\" But Charles Kemp\nwould be a primary example. There are people whose names I don't remember. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2700.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The\nfirst woman to play in any of the bands in Baltimore played in my father's band.\nShe played violin and flute. McCoy will remember her name.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Where did they rehearse?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: They rehearsed sometimes at Booker T. Washington Junior High\nSchool, they rehearsed at P.S. 125, they rehearsed in the public schools. Mainly\nin the public schools and in recreation centers.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Was your father familiar with people like Rivers Chambers, who\nwas playing mostly popular music?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Sure.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2760.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Were they ever involved musically?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know. It may be. My father, in addition to the band,\nplayed parties. He did a lot of that. It may be that they worked together there.\nI don't know but they certainly knew one another.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I was really astonished at how long Rivers Chambers had been\nplaying. I found records of him at the Maryland Theatre in 1917 and he was still\nplaying when he died in '57.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: The interior of that community was mutually sustaining. It\nwasn't amazing then. It was ordinary. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2820.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It totally depresses me to go back to\nBaltimore. There is such a double mind-set about the place, still. It is as if\nthose people in the center city don't exist. A lot of people came out of that\nenvironment. A lot of people still come out of it and it is a very rich\ncommunity and it remains fundamentally underserved and in many ways\ndisenfranchised. It makes me so angry that I just can't contain myself.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2880.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It is incredibly frustrating to live there because you see the\ncity floundering. It is just maddening. My husband and I are constantly getting\n\"Why do you live down there?\" We live down there because we really love it and I\nlove being in a diverse area where you can find every conceivable nationality\nrepresented in a two-block radius of our house, you can walk to both museums,\nyou can walk to the Lyric [Theatre], you can walk over to the university and I\ncan walk to work. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=2940.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wouldn't give it up for anything.\n\nWas your father involved when the two [musicians'] unions were joined together?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What part did he take in that?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I couldn't help wondering how that sorted itself out because\nwhen your father's union was having so much trouble with the city, the White\nunion refused to back them. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3000.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They paid for it, for had they decided to fight\nHuber, because that's what the fight was all about, they wouldn't have had to\nfight that battle down the road a couple of years later. They could have\ndefeated him then if the two of them had linked up. Instead of doing that, the\nBaltimore Symphony ended up collapsing because they didn't take a stand with the\nunion. It was a disastrous mistake.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Jimmy Swartz would have known because he was -- Well, you know\nabout Jimmy.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: No, tell me about him.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3060.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jimmy Swartz was the Mano Swartz family - the fur company. My\nfather and Jimmy grew up together. My father met Jimmy when he was working in\nthe older Mr. Swartz's store as a young man. They became friends for the rest of\ntheir lives. They were very close. They, as guys were close and my father had a\nvery good relationship with Laura, his wife. This was a friendship that was\nsignificantly politically for my father because it gave him a political ally who\nhad some influence. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3120.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But how Daddy participated in the coming together of those\nunions is something that Jimmy would have known. I doubt that it is anything\nthat he would have talked about. I don't know what he talked about. I don't know\nif any of his children would know anything about it. It isn't the kind of thing\nthat would necessarily interest them.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: That is too bad, because that is a real mystery. I've spent\nsome time over at the union, and the records from your father's union have all\ngone. Nobody knows where they are. The union had a disastrous fire a few years\nago and then some more records were lost. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3180.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Discussion of surviving union records.]\n\nA lot of the coverage in the Afro-American is tinged because of Wilson. The\neditorials probably present a more realistic view of the feelings in the\ncommunity. Wilson's columns went on raving about how the union was destroying\nthe musical life of the community, which is total nonsense.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Are there articles in the American or the Sun -- ? No news\nreports in either?\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I was really surprised at how little material there was in the\nSun. They really did have a different perspective. My introduction to that came\nwhen I got a collection in the archives -- the Peekskill Riots and Paul Robeson.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3240.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Discusses ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3300.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"coverage ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3360.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in local newspapers and attempts to find historical records.]\n\nThe union story is --\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: And the National has no record of it?\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: A lot of the local material just seems to be gone. I think it\nis going to be a matter of relying on the editorials in the Afro which do seem\nto be very well reasoned and lay out what was going on. But I would love to be\nable to see the union records.\n\nTell me about Mr. Gwynn. How long had your father work known him and how did he\ncome to work with him?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I have no idea.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3420.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then I found out that he had become friendly with Massimo\nFreccia. Was your father also acquainted with him?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: More than that. When my father retired from the band, he did\nso because he was persuaded by Massimo to work for him. He worked for [Massimo]\nFreccia. He had met him while he was working a party. Knowing my father, he\nprobably introduced himself. And when Freccia was in town, he would drive him\naround. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3480.0,3540.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a chauffeur. They struck up a friendship pretty quickly because\nthey could talk about music. This was extraordinary because after a concert\nMassimo would come out and ask, \"well, how did it really sound?\" And then they'd\ntalk about the music. That became something that was very valuable to him. And\nso Daddy traveled with him for at least -- [DISTORTION]\n\nDuring the summer he went with him and that was really great for him because he\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3540.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had the opportunity to hear all the orchestras he would never have heard under\nany other circumstances.\n\nHe struck up a friendship with Dennis Brain, so that whenever he saw Dennis\nBrain they had great talks. As a matter of fact, he had somewhere an autographed\nphoto to my father signed by Dennis Brain.\n\nAnd then, a curious intersection in 1956, I was in Europe and I couldn't see\nDaddy in England because at that time it was the British Open and golf and\ntennis ran into each other and there was nowhere to stay. I didn't have the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3600.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"money to get there and he couldn't afford to get me there. But I did see Dennis\nBrain, Peter Pears, and Benjamin Britten in concert at the Concertgebouw and I\ntold Daddy about that and he said that he thought that was great and that he was\ngoing to tell Dennis that I had seen him in Amsterdam. But had he not worked for\nFreccia he never would have had that kind of experience.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was he doing for Freccia?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He was driving him around and he was just a general factotum:\nchauffeur, cook, and confidant, and got along very well with Nena [Freccia's wife].\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did you attend symphony concerts when you were young?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Sure.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3660.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484/transcript/39160/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ELIZABETH SCHAAF: When I was working with the Baltimore Symphony, one of the\nquestions that came up was, when were the symphony audiences integrated?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Late.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Nobody could remember.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Very late. I remember that you could hear the symphony as part\nof a segregated audience at the Lyric. That broke down after I left.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I know Reginald Stewart was conductor and he found that whole\nidea just completely bizarre and it was something that he desperately wanted to\nchange and was running into terrible resistance.\n\n[END PART 1]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117484#t=3720.0,3780.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - pims0091_PrettymanA_02.mp3"]},"duration":2236.02939,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/485/small/data?1651087481","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/485/original/pims0091_PrettymanA_02.mp3?1624270962","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2236.02939,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["PrettymanA_2_OHMS_20220729 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALFRED PRETTYMAN: Stewart regularly brought the orchestra to the public schools.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He was the one who got A. Jack Thomas to conduct the\norchestra. That was the first clue that there was something wrong with the W.\nLlewellyn Wilson story. [Laughter]\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I remember that because it was such a big thing and I remember\nmy parents being very excited about it and going to the concert and wishing I\ncould go...but couldn't. It was a major event.\n\nI also remember the pictures in the papers the next day.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Yes, it was all over the papers. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What did your father say\nabout that concert?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He was exhilarated. He was just exhilarated.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: We did find his pieces.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: You told me, and that [David] Zinman is going to play them\nnext year?\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I think that they will probably get played.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I'll come down for it.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Roy McCoy talked about watching him work on that piece of\nmusic and he said that it was so wonderful for him to see him [Thomas] involved\nwith this piece of music because it meant that someday, if he wanted to, he\ncould have a symphony orchestra play his work. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It made him realize that anything\nwas possible for him musically. But then he said, \"I was never going to do that\nbut it was good to know that if I really wanted to do that I could.\"\n\nYou never studied with A. Jack Thomas but you were obviously close to him for a\nlong, long time.\n\nWhen did he stop conducting and move down toward Annapolis with his wife?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I think that happened when I left Baltimore. They stayed in\ntouch and when I would come home I would hear about them, but I never saw them\nafter that.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When did you leave Baltimore?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1952, as quickly as I could.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: You went on to college?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes, to Hamilton.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was your major?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: My major was philosophy with a minor in literature, English\nand French literature.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Where are you teaching now?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Rockland Community College.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Are you teaching philosophy?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I'm teaching literature and history. I'm teaching three\nthings. Incidentally, from Hamilton I went to Cornell in philosophy and then\nswitched to dramatic lit and then medieval and Renaissance lit and drama. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm\nteaching an African American history course, a three-semester course which I\ncreated, and put in place for the first time four years ago; an African American\nliterature course which I created and put in place about seven and a half years\nago. I formerly taught English composition, among other things, and speech. In\naddition to these two courses, I teach the mandatory course in pluralism and\ndiversity, for which I published a textbook in January of this year, and that is\nthe book before you.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: This one! That's wonderful. Your father would have been so pleased.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So would my mother.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When did your father die?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Daddy died in 1976 in Baltimore. We were going to Germany in\nAugust. We got our passports. We were going to Germany to stay in a hostel, one\nof those health spas where you could get a treatment for cancer that was not\navailable in the U.S. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were supposed to go at the end of August and he had a\nsetback and our flight was canceled. This trip to Germany had been arranged by\nGinny [phonetic]. It was clear that he wasn't going to get to Germany. I get\nconfused between the month that Daddy died and the month Mama died. It was\nOctober because Mama died in November.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have not been able to find an obituary. Did your father,\nsince he knew the music groups that were coming into town, did you all get to go\ndown to hear them at the Royal Theatre?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Sure.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Who was conducting the Royal Theatre during that period? Was\nit Bubby Johnson?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes! Bubby! I had forgotten about Bubby Johnson.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: You obviously know this man.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: A free spirit.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did he play in your father's band?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What was his instrument?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't remember.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I have not been able to find out very much about Bubby\nJohnson. The popular musicians are even more difficult than people like your\nfather. If you're lucky you can find an advertisement about what's going on in\nthe world of theatre, but it is very hard to document their work and their lives\nand find out about them as people, unless you are lucky enough to find somebody\nwho actually can remember them.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had his own band at the Royal.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He was the house band. He was a good jazz musician. You had\nsuch a tradition of a very high level of musicianship, execution and arranging\nas well, because there is that line from the Chick Webb Band and a lot of people\nworked for Lucky Millinder, it used to be the Mills Orchestra, and then it\nbecame Lucky Millinder's orchestra. That whole tradition was there, too. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was\na good band.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I was terribly taken with Chick Webb and that whole incredible\nstory about his being able to create a career, and a stunning career at that, in\nspite of everything he had going against him. The playing of that band --\nfortunately a lot of those recordings have been released on CD. There are\nsymphony musicians who can't play anywhere near as well as that.\n\nThe thing that got to me about Huber, reading about his justification for not\npaying his musicians a decent wage, was that it was an educational thing for\nthem. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These were well-seasoned professionals who could play like a house afire.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: This is the hangover of the false conception that these were\npeople in need of uplifting and we were helping them by simply giving them the\nopportunity to play.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Just incredible conceit! Did your father support the family\nthrough his music?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No! Never! It was impossible to support the family through\nmusic. My father always had a full-time job and, in addition to having a\nfull-time job, his photography business.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: It was a business!\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"His own private personal business. He took pictures of\nweddings and special events, parties, and took portraits, and he did that in the\nWhite community as well.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Did he have a studio or did he work out of his house?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: He had a studio on the third floor of the house. We lived in a\nthree-story row house on Schroeder Street, 508 was the address. 508 North\nSchroeder Street. On the third floor, the back two rooms were my father's\nphotography studio. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was running water in the back room, which was directly\nabove the bathroom on the 2nd floor and that middle room was used as the\ndarkroom for developing.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What on earth was he able to find to fit in with his career as\na photographer and musician?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: His work? He was in charge of the mailroom at Koppers Company.\nHe worked at Koppers. He was also the chauffeur for the President at Koppers. It\ncame in very handy because I was able to get a summer job at Koppers on the\nnight crew. What was I doing? Oh, yes! I was rust-proofing wings that were used\nin propellers for planes.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: How in the world did he do it?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, he had a heart attack in his forties. When he recovered\nfrom that he simply \"slowed down.\"\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He had three careers.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Well, that was ordinary for us because he said that there was\nno way you could support a family of five children unless you did more than one\nthing. So I grew up with the expectation that I would always do more than one thing.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: And have you?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Consistently.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: And probably as well as your dad.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know. We did different things. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My mother was very\nimportant in supporting the family. She taught and she gave up teaching full\ntime to raise the children, but she substituted all that time. Her name was Helen.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: She taught in the public schools and worked as a substitute\nafter the children were coming along?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yes. Later on she did substitute teaching.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: What about A. Jack Thomas? Was he working in addition to his music?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I don't know.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When he retired he had a farm and apparently still came up to\ntown to sell vegetables and to see his old friends.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They were all magic to me.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did your father save photographs and programs?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I have photographs and some programs. I wanted to send you a\ncopy of the program of the Masonic Band that I have in my files.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I would really be grateful to be able to see those. Did his\nnegatives get lost when the house was closed up?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I have about a fifth of his negatives.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's wonderful. Have they all been printed?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Some of them have not been printed for a long time.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: If you would entrust them to me, I could arrange to get copy\nprints or contact sheets made of them.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Daddy was charismatic. People liked him. When he went into a\nroom he lit the room up. He was magnetic. It bothered me.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: How did it bother you?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: It bothered me because I never got enough of him until later\non in life when I was able to tell him that. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was also not a shy man and\nhaving watched him do certain things made it natural for me to assume that they\ncould be done. I remember him barging up to the Governor and dragging me with\nhim, and saying \"Governor McKeldin, I'm Edward A. Prettyman, you remember?\" And\nhe'd say \"Oh, yes,\" and he'd say, \"This is my son\" and introduce me to the governor.\n\nI remember vividly in the process, thinking \"Oh, my goodness! What is he going\nto do now?\" The very thing my children said about me!\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How many children do you have?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I have a son and a daughter and five stepchildren.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: You have your hands full too.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: They are all grown.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Congratulations.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Thank you. My daughter -- I just had a wedding for my daughter\non my father's birthday. She didn't know it was my father's birthday. Or was it\nmy brother's birthday? My brother was born on September 1st -- or my father was\nborn on September 1st. One was the first and one was the seventh. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My father was\nthe first and Edward was the seventh. I gave you the wrong birthday -- it may be\nthe first. I'll have to go look at his passport.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I'm afraid I will be bothering you and I hope that it won't be\ntoo horrible a burden.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I have worked in book publishing for twenty-five years at\nleast, so I know.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: The Prettymans are a remarkable people. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The men are all\nhandsome and the women all seem to be very bright -- I haven't seen many pictures, but they must be extraordinary.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: It might be of interest to you to talk to my cousin, Eugene's\ndaughter. If you go to Eugene's house, the grand piano you saw in the living\nroom was formerly our grand piano when we moved from Franklin Street to\nSchroeder Street. There was no longer room for it in the house, or so my father\ndecided. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It then became Gene's.\n\nThe house on Franklin Street was not a rowhouse. It was the only stand-alone\nhouse on that block.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: So the family moved in from Howard County to Franklin Street?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No. Pa Gus and the boys and Aunt Sadie came into Baltimore and\nlived on White Street. Then, when Mother and Daddy married, they eloped and set\nup house on Franklin Street.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They eloped because the family was opposed to the marriage because he was not a\ndoctor or lawyer or teacher.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I expect they changed their opinion in good order.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: They had to.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: When I saw him in the photograph standing in front of that\nband, I thought, his wife must have been a remarkable woman because there must\nhave been a line of attractive ladies there all the time. He is such a striking man.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: All true. She was a very strong woman. She had to be. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He could\nnot possibly have sustained the things he did without her.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: It was a real partnership?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: No. [Laughs] I have no illusions about that. They loved each\nother, one might say, desperately, and it was enduring. I remember my mother\nsaying -- it was when my father was recovering from his first illness. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was in\none of our interminable three-hour conversations and my mother said -- not for\nthe first time -- \"Your father was the most exciting man I ever met. He still is.\"\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: That's wonderful. Where did you meet your wife?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Which one? [Laughs].\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Your present one.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Let's see. At present, I'm not strictly married, but for that.\nWhere did I meet Susan, for heaven's sake? I met Susan after Kathleen [Collins]\nhad died. Kathleen was my second wife, a playwright and film writer, and taught\nfilm at City College. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We met years before at a book party. And in Boston she had\nseen a film that Haile Gerima did in tribute to Kathy. And it was being shown at\nthe film festival there, along with Kathy's film Losing Ground. And at that\npoint, she did not know Kathy had died. So when she came to New York, she called\nme and -- [DISTORTION] -- went to lunch.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I was so depressed and morose, I don't know how she did it. [Laughs].\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I met my second wife at a party that was held for a mutual\nfriend's fiftieth birthday. It happened to have been Kathy's cousin. And Kathy\nlived in Fairmount at the time and her cousin told her -- Kathy had a reputation\nfor being reclusive -- that if she didn't come to this party, she would never\nspeak to her again. I was at that party. It was being held at the house of a\nfriend of ours, a woman who was a classmate in the MBA program I was in at the\ntime. And I was introduced to Kathy, and later on in the evening, she came back\nup to me and said, you remember me, don't you? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I said no. And she said, yes,\nyou do, because you cut my hair. I had, in fact, cut her hair twenty years\nearlier just before she went to Europe to study at the Sorbonne. Because I used\nto cut Julie's hair and Julie was the first woman who had an afro and people\nused to say, where do you get your hair cut like that? She said, my husband cut\nit. And there were only three women's hair I cut. So I had to remember. So we,\nin effect, met each other again after twenty years.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: That's a remarkable story.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Yeah. Perfectly suited to each other. I mean, in a way that's\nunimaginable, that we could never have thought. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we were very lucky, and we\nknew it. [DISTORTION] -- get lucky twice.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: And sometimes you're lucky just to be lucky once. I know, I am\nenjoying that with my husband and feel very, very fortunate. And it's great fun.\nHe's an art historian. And it's wonderful to have someone in a sympathetic\nfield. So when you're about to come unglued because things aren't quite sorting\nout the way you thought they should, you can get proper sympathy and good solid\nadvice, which is a lot more useful.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I'm so glad you're taking care of your father's papers. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That\nis more than I ever expected to find. It's been so depressing. I mean, as near\nas I can tell, there's very little documentation on A. Jack Thomas. Roy McCoy,\nbless his heart, has saved everything he's ever gotten his hands on about music,\nand that he's had anything to do with. He has actually the little bit of\nmaterial that exists on A. Jack Thomas. There is very little on Wilson.\nApparently, he wrote music. None of his music survived. Nobody knows what\nhappened to it. And I honestly have not even been able to find anybody who can\nrecall what his music was like.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, like the music of the day, of the first -- nostalgic,\nromantic. I remember -- involved in it, which didn't strike me as strange then,\nbut it sure strikes me as strange now. [Laughter] I don't have any other than\nthat vague recollection. Perhaps whoever has the records of someone named Ruth\nMcAbee, who was a music teacher at Booker T. Washington, might have some stuff\nthat would include some stuff on Wilson. I don't know who might have that. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nknow the person who lives in Ruth McAbee's house. [DISTORTION] -- always wanted\nthat house when she was his teacher. -- Morell. He's an old friend of mine. Now,\nthere is a senior and there's a junior, and the junior is a broadcaster in\nMaryland. -- don't know if you have the clue, but you may --\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Any leads are good leads. I really enjoyed reading your\nwriting. You write very well, and I love the chapter in the [Frederick] Douglass book.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: That is yours.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: May I keep that? Oh, thank you. That is wonderful. I had even\nwritten down the ISBN [laughs]. Well, that is a treat. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I shall be very happy to\ntake that.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I will try to remember to bring this up with Mareda\nGaither-Graves -- another name you should know -- who went on from Baltimore.\n[She] was one of Wilson's students at Douglass. At some point I'll get you her\nphone number.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: I'd be very grateful.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: [Georgeanna] Chester would have been an ideal person. But\nGeorgia died, I think two or three years ago.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: Does she have a daughter or a son?\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: Paula. She's a lawyer.\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I suppose at my age, the people who were active in the '40s,\nit doesn't seem like it should really be that long ago. And it's just amazing\nwhen you start trying to track people down and see how few there are left. It's\njust sobering.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: If I come up with any other names -- You know, Ellis is\ninvaluable --\n\nELIZABETH SCHAAF: He's apparently getting better and he's been out playing since\nI talked to you last. So he's back and up and I'm looking forward to getting\ntogether with him. And I'll definitely send your regards to him and let you know\nhow --. And his wife seems to be doing just fine. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485/transcript/39161/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She is just wonderful. Well,\nwe hope there will be an excuse to come down to Baltimore.\n\nALFRED PRETTYMAN: I will create one. [Laughter]\n\n[END PART 2]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44165/file/117485#t=2220.0,2280.0"}]}]}]}