{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/iiif/862b85433d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["James Crockett oral history, 2002 April 10"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":[" James Crockett (1925-2019) was a jazz supporter, realtor, and businessman. Raised in Baltimore, Crockett attended Douglass High School, where he was inspired by the school's music teacher, W. Llewellyn Wilson. As a young man, he frequented the Royal Theater and the clubs on Pennsylvania Avenue, where he heard Fats Waller, Ella Fitzgerald, Billy Eckstine, and many other jazz greats. Crockett was influential in creating and supporting Baltimore's musical institutions, including the Eubie Blake Cultural Center. In this interview, Crockett describes the Pennsylvania Avenue jazz scene and his encounters with musicians such as Duke Ellington, Eubie Blake, and Ella Fitzgerald. (Abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":[" 2002-04-10 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":[" Crockett, James, 1925-2019 (Interviewee)"," Davis, Daniel Thomas (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":[" English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://aspace.library.jhu.edu/repositories/4/archival_objects/215344"]}}],"summary":{"en":[" James Crockett (1925-2019) was a jazz supporter, realtor, and businessman. Raised in Baltimore, Crockett attended Douglass High School, where he was inspired by the school's music teacher, W. Llewellyn Wilson. As a young man, he frequented the Royal Theater and the clubs on Pennsylvania Avenue, where he heard Fats Waller, Ella Fitzgerald, Billy Eckstine, and many other jazz greats. Crockett was influential in creating and supporting Baltimore's musical institutions, including the Eubie Blake Cultural Center. In this interview, Crockett describes the Pennsylvania Avenue jazz scene and his encounters with musicians such as Duke Ellington, Eubie Blake, and Ella Fitzgerald."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/393/small/crockett.jpg?1649883592","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - pims0091_CrockettJ-1_01.mp3"]},"duration":2898.05061,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/393/small/crockett.jpg?1649883592","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/393/original/pims0091_CrockettJ-1_01.mp3?1624270793","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2898.05061,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["CrockettJ_101_OHMS_20220607 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Today is Wednesday, April 10, 2002. I'm in an interview\nwith Mr. James Crockett, 2500 Eutaw Place, Baltimore, Maryland. Thank you, Mr. Crockett.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: You're welcome sir. It's my pleasure.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: You were born here in Baltimore?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Born here in Baltimore. In a street that's called, was called\nHaw, H A W, Haw Street, in South Baltimore. There was only two blocks of it, and\nafter the war, they changed the name of the street to Melvin Drive.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So you lived there for your entire childhood?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I lived there until I was about six years old, and then we moved\non West Fayette Street. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's where I started to school and lived there\nmost of my young life until I married.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Tell me a little bit about your family background.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I come from a large family, four boys and four girls. And I was\nthe fifth child in the family. Originally came from North Carolina, Charlotte,\nNorth Carolina, and they moved up here in the early '20s, and we've been here\never since.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: For years you've been a sort of music advocate, but you\nnever played anything yourself. How did you initially become involved in music\nand interested in music here in Baltimore?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I became interested in music ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because I had an uncle who was\nsightless, and he played piano. And when I would come from school, I would hear\nmusic coming from his home, and I would stop in, and he would have a fellow by\nthe name of Alfonso Mariano and a man by the name of Johnny Craig. Johnny Craig\nplayed the snare drum. And if I'm not mistaken, that was the only drum that he\nhad, and some sticks, and he didn't have a bass or anything else, no cymbals, he\njust played drums, and Mariano was an accomplished violinist, and my uncle\nplayed the piano. And I would hear the music, and I'd go and just listen to\nthem. And that's how I became hooked on music.\n\nAnd then in elementary school, we had a principal by the name of Clarence\nRoberts. He was also a violinist, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he would play marches in the morning, John\nPhilip Sousa's marches, when we'd come into the school. Didn't have a\nloudspeaker, but he would turn the record player up loud so all the kids could\nlisten to the music. And it just became imbedded in me from that time on.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Was this near Fayette Street?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: No. This was at Pierce and Schroeder Street. Neither one, Pierce\nStreet doesn't exist anymore because of the Social Security complex that's\nthere, but it was a very wonderful area. Lots of schools, competent, quality\nschools in that area.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And that was your grammar school?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: That was my grammar school.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And then you went on to Douglass?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: And then I went to Douglass High School, and I graduated there\nin 1944. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There we had a wonderful musician by the name of W. Llewellyn Wilson,\nwho played the piano, and he also directed the Colored Park Band. And he would\ntake the best students and move them over into the Park Band while he was still\nconducting the band.\n\nHe also taught Bill Kenney, who used to sing with the Ink Spots; Avon Long, who\nplayed in Porgy and Bess; Cab Calloway; Anne Wiggins Brown and quite a few other people.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And you knew him personally?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I knew him personally.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you go to a lot of these Park Band concerts.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Went to a lot of the Park Band concerts, and there were at least\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"two Park Band orchestras. One was the white orchestra that used to come up to\nFranklin Square. On the end of Franklin Square there was a German Methodist, a\nGerman home. They had one for female and one for males, and they used to come up\nat Calhoun and Lexington Street and block the street off at night time, and the\nwhite band played for them, and the Colored [Park] Band played for the colored\npeople in Druid Hill Park.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: At what point were you beginning to be drawn to jazz?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: My jazz started, I guess, around 1938 when I first went to the\nRoyal Theater on my own, and I saw a stage show.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How did you come across the Royal? Had you heard about it?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I'd heard about the Royal, and my sisters and brothers had been\ngoing to the movie for years, and I was afraid to go to the movie, and I just\ntook it upon it myself this one day to go to the Royal because I saw all of\nthese statues and signs outside saying that the orchestra was there, and I just\ndecided to go in. I think it cost me something like twenty-five cents.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So, your parents didn't want you to go into the movies?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: My parents didn't want me to go -- none of us to go -- to the\nmovie because they were Baptists, and they were staunch Baptists, and they\nthought the movies was the devil's workshop. And I believed them, and I was\nfrightened to go to the movies.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And so the Royal was.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The Royal was my first entrance into jazz and going to the movie.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So tell me about that first time at the Royal then.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I couldn't believe it. I never saw a stage show in my life, and\nI saw these people on the stage, and I couldn't differentiate as to whether or\nnot they were on the screen or on the stage. And the reason was because they had\na screen that you could see through, and you could see the musicians, but you\nhad to look through the screen. It was transparent. Then eventually they raised\nthe curtain, and then you could see the orchestra. And I was just a little\nconfused. I didn't know whether they were on the stage or on the screen.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And so they were singing and dancing?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Singing and dancing and comedians, and it was a terrific show.\nAnd on my way out I was fearful because I thought somebody had told my mother\nthat they saw me going to the movie, and she was going to be waiting for me on\nthe outside of the movie when I got out, and she was going to whip me all the\nway home.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But she didn't.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: She didn't.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you even tell her about your experience?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Never told her about the experience. I guess maybe twenty-five,\nthirty years later, I convinced her that she should see some of Cecil B.\nDeMille's productions of religious subjects, and she went with another lady to\nthe Regent Theater to see one of the productions, and she just thought it was grand.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Do you remember who that first show was at the Royal?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The first show I saw was Fats Waller.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Really?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Fats Waller. And it was just amazing. This man had on a shirt,\nand he had garters on his shirt sleeves. At that time ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers didn't make\nsleeve lengths the way they do today and -- collars. So you either bought a\nsmall, medium or large. Now they have sizes. And so men during that time wore\ngarters to pull the sleeves up, and they would blouse them over the garters, and\nI saw him on the stage and I was, I was just fascinated.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: I guess he probably needed a pretty big shirt.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: He needed a big shirt, and he was really a showman.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: That must have been right before he died.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: No. This was a good while because I saw him again at the Royal\nTheater later on.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: That's got to be quite a first.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was quite an impression. And I wondered how they got on the\nstage because I didn't see anything, any doorways or anything. And I looked at\nthe catwalk and I looked at the klieg lights and everything else to see what was\ngoing on, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I couldn't find out how they got on the stage. And I was just\nfascinated by that.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Who would be at these Royal Theater shows?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: They had a circuit in New York that was called the \"Chitlin\"\ncircuit. And the show started at the Apollo Theater, and it would change each\nweek. It would start at the Apollo in New York, and then it would go to the Earl\n[Theater] in Philadelphia, and it would come to Baltimore at the Royal Theater,\nand then Washington at the Howard Theater, and it would go all the way down\nSouth. And then another week, the next week, another show would follow it. And\nthat's how you kept abreast of your favorite musicians. You wanted to know where\nthey were and how they were doing.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So 1938 you're hooked?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I was hooked.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So up on through high school you would go to the Royal\nevery chance you could get?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Go to the Royal. And then we had a lot of shows here. We had\nfour active auditoriums that you could go to. There was the Strand Ballroom, the\nNew Albert Hall, the Good Hope Hall, and--did I say New Albert?\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Yes.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Okay, the New Albert. And then Pythian Castle. So you could go\nto these places, and they had dances. And they would bring the musicians here,\nand you would see very good shows.\n\nEven the white musicians played. We had, oh Louis Prima, Gene Krupa, you just\nname 'em. Charlie BarnettBarnet, Artie Shaw, good musicians.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Quite a line up.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Quite a line up. Quite a line up.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And so you would go while you're still in high school?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I would go while I was still in high school, and then I would go\nto the dances. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had record clubs at that time, and we only had the 78 records.\nBut we were introduced to records when they had the Victrola, the wind up\nVictrola, and you'd put it on, and you'd have to change the needles and things\nlike that.\n\nSo we were introduced to records at that time. And then when our favorite\norchestras would cut a disk, then we'd go to the local record shop and buy it,\nand then we'd bring it around and just let everybody hear it. And they would go\naround to their homes and bring records, and we'd just listen to records.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So you would have records of the people that you heard and\nsaw there?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yes. Yes.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So they were with you even when they were gone?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Absolutely. This was one way of continuing listening to the music.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And did your family have a record player?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: We had a record player. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had the Victrola. We had two of them.\nAnd we were introduced, many years ago, in the '20s to those records, and we had\na stack of those records. We had Bessie Smith, and a lot of Jimmie Lunceford, a\nlot of orchestra, and it was very good sound. We didn't know the difference\nuntil stereo came out and stereophonic sound, but we enjoyed the records.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: But it wasn't like the live shows?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was not like the live shows. And when you would go to the\ndances, you could get close to the musicians, and you could ask them for\nautographs, and they would reciprocate, and they were glad to sign autographs\nand talk to you. Tell you about the conditions, where they live, and where\nthey're going.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: How would you meet the musicians?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: You'd just walk up to them and you'd say to them: may I have\nyour autograph? And he would say yes. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you would say where's your home? And\nhe would tell you. And you'd say how long have you been playing so and so and so\nand so. He said, well, I've been practicing for a number of years, and I started\nout when I was seven years old.\n\nAnd I have one thing that most musicians have in common. Most of them, when\ntheir parents started taking them to music lessons, resented going to take the\nlessons. And eventually after they got accustomed to it and saw that they could\nmake music, then they became really a lover of music.\n\nI still find it true today. Kids don't want to take piano lessons.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Right.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: And I don't know why, but they just don't want to go. But I have\na good friend, his name is James Spencer Hammond. He's a wonderful teacher, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and\nhe's one of the best choir directors of African American music in the United\nStates. And he has a unique way of getting children to become acquainted with\nmusic and play an instrument. And all he does is to talk to the children and say\nto them, \"Do you know how long fifteen minutes is?\" And they'll say \"Yeah.\"\nHe'll say, \"Now here's my watch, and all I want you to do is to be here fifteen\nminutes. And when the fifteen minutes were up, you would raise your hand, and\nthen we'd stop.\"\n\nSo he breaks them in at fifteen minutes, and when he reaches fifteen minutes,\nthe child raises his hand and he stops. He lets them go.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And it works?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: And it works. The next time he comes back, he gives them fifteen\nminutes more. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the kid raises his hand. So about the third or fourth session,\nhe'll stretch it maybe to eighteen minutes or twenty minutes. And before you\nknow it, he's got the child hooked on a half hour. And it works.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So how were you hooked?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I was hooked just by listening to good music. Good music. And\nBaltimore was a mecca for it because, we had the Hippodrome, and we had a lot of\nwhite theaters that had shows. Some of them had them on the roof. Some of the\nhotels had rooftop shows, and they would bring orchestras here, and you could go down.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: The Belvedere?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The Belvedere had a dance hall, but they didn't have the roof.\nBut the Southern Hotel had a roof, and some of the theaters ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"down on Lexington\nStreet. Lexington Street was wide until it got to Liberty Street. When it got to\nLiberty Street, it narrowed to where just about two cars could pass. And they\nhad a lot of theaters and a lot of radio stations in the block between Liberty\n\nand Charles Street. And they had these places where musicians would play on the\nroof, right there on top of the theater.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you ever get to hear any of these musicians or see them?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Never saw them there, but I saw the musicians at the Hippodrome\nbecause I'd go down to the Hippodrome when they were changing shows.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Tell me about the Hippodrome. It was a segregated theater?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Hippodrome was a segregated theater, but they had black\nperformers. And my brother worked for a transfer company. It was called the\nMasson Transfer Company, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they used to bring the shows into the Hippodrome,\nto the Lyric, and to the Royal Theater. And they worked late at night to bring\nthe shows in, and sometimes early in the morning they would still be setting up,\nand they would ask me, would you want to see so and so. And I'd get up early and\ngo down. And that's how I would see some of the musicians down there, backstage.\n\nAnd when they got ready to dismantle the shows and move them out, they would go\ndown there early. Of course, they wasn't on the clock at the time, but they were\nthere for the work, and you could see the entire show in the wing of the\ntheater. And nobody complained.\n\nAnd after the shows, during the summertime, before the sign came out that was\nattached to the marquee that says it's cool inside, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the performers would come\nout in the back alley, and they would sit in chairs just to cool off instead of\nbeing in the theater. So you could talk to them there.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: You just walked down there from your home?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: You'd walk down there, and you'd talk to them. And they were\nglad to see you. And you'd ask them for autographs and the new things that's\nhappening -- what are they doing, where are they going, where they've been? And\nthey were very cordial and very helpful.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: How many of you would go down there and do this type of\nthing? Would there be a crowd outside?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Later on when the bobbie soxers started going, coming out, then\nthere would be a crowd, and it became a problem then getting close to the\nmusicians. But during those days, nobody had a bodyguard, so you could get close\nto the musicians. You could talk to them; ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could hug them; you could shake\ntheir hands. And they were there for you.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And they were all very responsive?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Very responsive. Very responsive.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: At the Royal you had some of the same musicians coming?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: At the Royal you had some of the same musicians. It was a common\nthing to see them because they were in the Black community. And you could go\nbackstage. You could see them coming and going backstage. And sometimes you\ncould pick them up and take them around, show them some sights in the city. And\nthat's what we would do.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Who was the first person you did this with?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The first person was Billy Eckstine. He was from Washington, and\nwe took Billy around. And then there was a lady that sang with him. Her name was\nMadeline Green. They were with Earl Hines' orchestra at the time. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we took\nthem around, and he wasn't afraid, and the next time Madeline Green accompanied\nus on our little trips.\n\nAnd then we graduated to Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, Pearl Bailey, and just a\nnumber of them.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So in these trips around Baltimore with Count Basie and\nEckstine, where would you go, what would you do with them?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Well, we would take them and show them the city. And we'd take\nthem to somebody's house, and it might be fifteen or twenty of us. And we'd have\ndinner, and then we'd take them back to the theater because they had a limit on\nthe amount of time they could spend from the station, away from the Royal. And\nthen we'd have to get them back up there for the next show.\n\nBut then there was a place in the 200 block of Arlington Avenue, it was called\nthe Jolly Spot Inn. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we would take them down to the Jolly Spot on a Monday\nbecause it was the best show in the city. And you had all kinds of musicians\nthat would come there and play for the matinee.\n\nThe matinee would start at four o'clock when people started getting off of work\nand was supposed to end at nine o'clock, but they would play up until one\no'clock in the morning. You'd have other musicians that would come in and sit\nin, and the house band, you wouldn't see any members of the house band for a\nwhile because they were on a rest or on intermission and somebody else would be performing.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So people always rotated in and out?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Rotated in and out.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And this was just on Monday evenings?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: That was on Monday. But there was always some type of orchestra\nor group of people entertainers coming into the city ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and you could go to them.\nAnd I guess the most fascinating event I attended was in 1952 at the Coliseum up\non Monroe Street. They used to have the basketball games there, wrestling\nmatches, and they would have entertainment for blacks and whites. And at this\nparticular time I saw Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington for\nfifty-five cents. It was fifty-cents before date and seventy-five cents on the date.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: That's a deal.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was a deal. It was a deal.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And you met Ella, right?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I met them. And then we had, in Annapolis, two beaches. And in\nthe '30s the church that I attended was a leading church in the city. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They had\nthe best Sunday School in the state of Maryland.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And what church was this?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Morning Star Baptist Church in the Ten-Hundred Block of West\nFayette Street. People all over the state would come, black and white would\ncome, and observe the Sunday School that they had set up, and they would try to\nreplicate the Sunday School wherever they went. They were generous to the children.\n\nThey would have an Easter program, and they would have a children's day program\nwhich included a parade around the city, and the children marched, and they had\nAmerican flags, and they had a band. And people that couldn't walk, they had a\ntractor- trailer, they put chairs on it, and the people followed in the\ntractor-trailer. And they had cars and things like that.\n\nThey decided instead of going out to Druid Hill Park the fourth Thursday in July\n-- and that was the stated event -- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fourth Thursday in July, they would take,\noh, twenty-six, thirty busloads of people out there. The only bus company that\nwas prominent in the city was the United Railway, and this was a forerunner of\nthe Baltimore Transit Company. So you would lease these buses to take these kids\nout to the park.\n\nAnd they would play, and you'd have ice cream, cookies and soda pop, and then\nthey graduated from the park and they went down to Carr's Beach and Sparrow's\nBeach in Annapolis. And during the summer months, the orchestras would come down\nto these beaches on a Sunday, and they graduated to having Friday night and\nSaturday shows down there.\n\nYou could see the best of them.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Who were the performers who came out for these shows?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Oh, when Ella Fitzgerald came out with a Tisket a Tasket, she\nwas singing with Chick Webb at the time. So we could go, we would see Chick\nWebb, Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Jimmie Lunceford, Fletcher\nHenderson, oh just a number of the bands would come in.\n\nWell, it was a fellow by the name -- the orchestra had five guys name Moe. It\nwas a very good show. He was a - Louis Jordan -- very good musician. He was a\ncolorful dresser, good showman, very good, very good show.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So all of this was under the guise of a church event?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, the church would go, and the orchestras would be there.\nAnd you would just avail yourself of the entertainment.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And some of these performers would be at the Royal as well?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yes. Same performers. And once you met them at the Royal and you\ntalked to them, if you'd meet them at Carr's Beach, or if you met them at the\nColiseum or the Strand Ballroom, they would remember you and the conversation,\nand you would become pretty good buddies.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So when did they start remembering you? You'd been going up\nto these musicians backstage.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Going backstage. Well, we started off with Billy Eckstine\nbecause he was young at the time, and then Sammy Davis, Jr., and the rest of\nthem would come through. And you'd go back and you would talk to them, and there\nwere some dancers, Bunnie Briggs. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so you would talk to them, and after the\nshow, you'd come back and talk to them again. So you established a good\nrelationship with them, and things worked out pretty good.\n\nSo the next time they were in town, they would just walk up, grab you and hug\nyou. The same thing with Rosemary Clooney, a wonderful person. You met her the\nfirst time, she was effervescent. She was outgoing. She'd just walk up to you\nand say, \"Hi jazz, how you doing?\" You know, and hug you and give you a kiss.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: She called you \"Jazz?\"\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yeah. She still does. The last time I saw her was down at Pier\n6. She was down there with Mercer Ellington and the band, and she remembered me.\nWe're backstage, and she just grabbed me. She gave me a bear hug. You know, she\njust held me for a long period of time and said, \"So glad, I'm so glad to see\nyou.\" Just a wonderful person.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So who were some of these characters you got to know more\nand more?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess I knew more about the Duke Ellington orchestra than I\ndid any other musicians -- the out of town musicians. Now local musicians I knew\nthem because I would see them, either on Wednesday nights or Friday nights. The\nlocal musicians played on Wednesday night, and it would only cost fifteen cents\nto go to the Strand Ballroom. And they would start at nine o'clock, and they\nwould start at one-thirty, a quarter to two.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Wait. One-thirty, quarter to two on a weeknight?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yes. For fifteen cents.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So would you go to work the next morning, then I'm assuming?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Well, I was in school. So you had to leave there about eleven\no'clock in order to sneak into the house because we had a curfew of ten o'clock.\nAnd you had to sneak into the house ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because bed check was coming around.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you ever get caught?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Many times, many times. And I couldn't give an explanation. And\nI just had to suffer the consequences.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: But was it worth it?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was worth it. It was worth it. But I realized the discipline\nthat my parents were trying to instill in all of us. And we started looking at\nthe consequences if you didn't do what they told you to do, the price you'd have\nto pay.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Tell me about these local musicians on the week nights\nthen. What kind of players were they, how was the quality of the music?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The quality was very good because most of these musicians, being\nthe house band at the Royal Theater, backed up the top flight entertainers that\ncame into town. They accompanied them. And, of course, they had rehearsals, but\nthey were top notch. They were top notch.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And a lot of them became friends of yours.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lots of them became friends of mine. Tracy McCleary had the\nhouse band for the Royal Theater, and then there was a fellow who played the\ntrumpet by the name of Roy McCoy. They called him Tanglefoot. Very good person.\nHe traveled with Lionel Hampton, a lot of the orchestras, and he played here\nregularly. He died last year, and I went to his funeral. I think he was in his\neighties when he died. He was a wonderful person.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Was this local jazz community tight knit?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was tight knit, but musicians are different from other\npeople. They will spend hours with a person that's struggling with an instrument\nto help that person catch on to a different style. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They just sit there and coach\nhim along until he finally gets it. And a lot of the local musicians do that if\nyou go to band rehearsals.\n\nI know that the bands used to rehearse at Pennsylvania Avenue and Lanvale\nStreet. There was an insurance company that had their office on the first floor,\nbut in the basement on street level, there was a rehearsal hall. And the bands\nwould rehearse there. You could go up and just listen to the music.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you ever go up and listen to rehearsal?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Many hours you'd spend. They wouldn't let you come in, but you\ncould stand on the outside and listen to it, and then you could easily sneak\nright down in the doorway and listen. Then eventually, if they got accustomed to\nseeing you, they wouldn't chase you away. But that's what would happen.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And so they were encouraging these other musicians who\nweren't quite making the bar?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yes, yes. They would encourage them, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they would spend quite\na bit of time with them. And then they would let them sit in at some of the\nperformances that they had. So, and you could see that they're still giving them\ninstructions as they were performing.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: While we're on the subject of local musicians, tell me a\nlittle bit more about the Strand. You mentioned it before. Those were local\nmusicians then who played at the Ballroom then?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: No. Local and international musicians came to the Strand.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The Strand Ballroom was next to the Royal Theater on\nPennsylvania Avenue. And on the first floor was a bowling alley, and in the\nbasement they had a bowling alley. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And on the second floor they had this dance\nhall. It was extremely long, and they sold potato chips and soda. They didn't\nhave beer, no alcoholic drinks. And that's what they would have there.\n\nYou could go there and see the local musicians on a Wednesday or Friday night\nfor fifteen cents. And all over the city, people from South Baltimore, East\nBaltimore, West, North Baltimore would come, and you would meet and you would\njust form little groups. And then they would say we're gonna have a record\nsession, and they would give you the place and the time, and then you would go\ndown and listen to the records. Didn't have cars. Most of us didn't have cars.\nSo we'd walk. We'd walk to East Baltimore, walk to South Baltimore.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: That would take a while I bet.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It would take a while, but it the idea was that you were going\nto hear the music. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when the new records and a person bought a record, it\ntraveled all over the city. You know, so and so has a record of so and so. And\nyou'd go and listen.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Did you dance at the Strand?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: We danced at the Strand with the local musicians, when the local\nmusicians played. But when the big bands came, we hung on to the band stand and\non the instruments. Right there. Because we wanted to get as close to them as possible.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So they were these towering figures?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: They were these towering figures, and they were very hospitable.\nAnd very talkative and just lovely people to be around.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And how would that compare to let's say the Good Hope?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The Good Hope was down on Lexington Street, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the Lexington\nMarket extended from Pine Street at the time, and it went all the way down to\nEutaw Street. The stalls were in the street at Pine Street, and it went down to\nPearl, and then they had the first section of the market. They had three\nsections. They had a fish market, and then they had a produce market, and then\nthey had the better market between Paca and Eutaw.\n\nThe Good Hope was in the 600 block of West Lexington Street. It was a Black-\nowned fraternal order. And they had this hall, and you would go down there to\nthe dances, but you had a lot of orchestras here. You had Buddy Johnson and his\norchestra, you had Tracy, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you had Seaman Elridge, and then you had a fellow by\nthe name of Preston Duncan that had the Good Hope, played at the Good Hope Hall.\nAnd all of his music without a doubt sounded like Guy Lombardo. It had that\nbeat. And I don't care how modern the music was, the beat was the same in the\nGuy Lombardo style. And people really enjoyed it.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: You mentioned the Good Hope was a Black- owned\nestablishment. How rare was that for these halls?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It wasn't. It wasn't rare because the Royal Theater was built by\nblack people from the ground up. And at the time it was called the Douglass\nTheater. And they brought entertainment here, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2220.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oh in the '20s, because there was\nno place for black people to see these performers. And eventually white people\nbought the Royal, or something happened, and they continued that type of entertainment.\n\nSo it wasn't, it was a common thing for Black fraternal organizations to have\nhalls. The best hall that we had was the Odd Fellows, which was on McCulloh and\nLanvale Street. They built it from the ground up. It was two stories and a\nbasement. And they had beautiful hardwood floors, and they had offices on the\nsecond floor, and in the basement they had a kitchen. This was the best hall,\nthe best Black owned hall that we had in the city of Baltimore.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2280.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we had the Pythian Castle that was owned by the Knights of Pythias. And\nthen the Good Hope Hall. And all of the local and the international musicians\nthat came here, they played at these halls. Chick Webb played at all of these\nhalls during his lifetime. And Ella Fitzgerald sang in most of these places.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: How would this be different from something like the Comedy Club?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Comedy Club was a nightclub. And they had a small stage, and\nthey would have a house band consisting of no more than five pieces, and a\nminimum of three, and then they would have the entertainers: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2340.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a vocalist, female\nvocalist, a male vocalist, and maybe a comedian. And that would be the show. And\nthe Comedy Club was owned by a man by the name of Isaac Dixon, they called him\nIke Dixon, and he had the Comedy Club, and he would bring musicians here. He was\na saxophone player, tenor saxophone player. And he was a very good player, and\nin Duke Ellington's book, Music is My Mistress, he mentions Ike Dixon. Ike had\ntwo sons, Ike, Jr. and Howard, and both of them were musicians. And they played\nin the high school band while I was up at Douglass.\n\nAnd I had another unique experience with Ike, Jr. Ike was a half a year ahead of\nme in school, and he was drafted, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2400.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he went into the service. And I was\ndrafted a half a year later, and I was stationed at Camp PlushaPlauche,\nLouisiana. It was my first experience of being away from home, and a lot of the\nfellows from Baltimore were with me, and we didn't have any place to go so we\nwent to this non-commissioned officers club in New Orleans, Louisiana, on the\nbase, and sitting on the stage playing drums was Ike Dixon.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So music from Baltimore got around then?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Music from Baltimore got around. And he looked out in the\naudience, and he stopped beating, and he saw all of the people from Baltimore in\nthese army uniforms, and he just held the entire band up. You know, they\nwondered what happened, so he said, the word was \"cut buddy.\" And he said these\nare my \"cut buddies\" from Baltimore. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2460.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he just introduced us, and then they\nstarted playing again.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: After you got back from the service, did the music in\nBaltimore seem any different?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was. We had, in the service we met a lot of people: Francis\nLangford, what's the redhead's name? With Desi Arnez. What's her name?\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Lucille Ball.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Lucille Ball. Lucille Ball came and we saw a lot of\nentertainment. And Lucille would sing, and they would have musicians. So we go\naccustomed to the USO shows coming through. And some of the people that we saw\nat the Royal Theater came through the USO shows, and we re-established ourselves\nwith them, and it was just so good to see them.\n\nAnd then after the war was over, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2520.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then we started the better shows -- really good shows.\n\nThe Royal was a mecca for colored people because we saw things at the Royal that\nwe could never see anyplace else, unless we went to New York. I can remember\nseeing Eubie Blake and Noble Sissel. I saw them twice in my life at the Royal\nTheater, and they had a complete traveling show. Everything was their show.\n\nMany of the shows there were individuals, the tap dancer, the female vocalist,\nwere all independent and they had these agents so they just got together in\nforming the show. But with Nobel Noble Sissel and Eubie Blake, it was their\ncomplete show ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2580.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they took along with them. And this was fascinating.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: What kind of experience was it?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was a unique experience because it was a complete show. It\nwas entertainment. It might have been Chocolate Dandies or one of the other\nshows that they had, but it was a complete show. It was entertaining. And to be\nhonest with you, it was longer than the vaudeville shows that they had. So\nevidently they eliminated a lot of the movie part. You would have the coming\nattraction and the main feature, but you wouldn't have the comedy or you\nwouldn't have the newsreels because they cut that short so you could get the\nentertainment from the orchestra. It was a very good show.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And you met Eubie Blake.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2640.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Met Eubie, and Eubie and I became very good friends. I'm in the\nreal estate business, and I had a house on Lanvale Street, and I rented a first\nfloor apartment to man who was\n\nsightless, and he was from Baltimore. He lived in Baltimore. And he knew Eubie\nBlake. So we were talking about the musicians in Baltimore, and we talked about\nEubie. He said, \"Eubie's a friend of mine.\" And he said, \"When you see Eubie,\nyou tell him that you met George so and so,\" and I said I will. And so when I\nsaw Eubie, I said, \"Eubie, I know a friend of yours.\" And he said, \"who is it?\"\nAnd I said, \"George.\" He said, \"No, you don't have to tell me a last name.\" He\nsaid, \"You know, that man went all over France and Paris. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2700.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He's sightless.\" He\nsaid he went all over Paris by himself.\n\nAnd he said, \"Where is he? I want to see him.\" So I said \"I'll make arrangements\nfor you to see him.\" But I never did. But whenever Eubie would come to\nBaltimore, we'd get together. He had some people that lived on Mount Street. He\nwould visit them, and then he would always visit Provident Hospital, just to see\nthe sick people in the hospital.\n\nHe was an immaculate dresser -- shoes shined to the nth - real neat at all\ntimes, and very cordial, aggressive, outgoing, and we became very good friends.\n\nThe last time I saw him perform was at the Morris Mechanic [Theater]. It was\nduring the [Gov. William Donald] Schaefer administration, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2760.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they were trying\nto get Baltimore to be a replica of Churchill Downs during the Preakness. And at\nChurchill Downs they have a week leading up to the big race, and then we tried\nto do the same thing here in Baltimore. So at the Morris Mechanic they had a lot\nof orchestras coming in. Well, they had the Duke Ellington band that night, and\nthey also had Eubie Blake. And I took my wife and my minister's daughter\nbackstage to meet Eubie. My wife had met him before, and we stayed backstage,\nand before long his wife, Marion [Grant Tyler], said, \"James, it's time to go now.\"\n\nSo he asked if we wanted some autographs, and we said, \"Yes.\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2820.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393/transcript/38410/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he autographed\n\"I'm Just Wild About Harry\" for me. And he did one for Lutherine Bascom\n[phonetic]. You have to stop?\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Let's take a quick break.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Okay.\n\n[END PART 1]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117393#t=2880.0,2940.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - pims0091_CrockettJ-1_02.mp3"]},"duration":2950.03429,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/394/small/crockett.jpg?1649883602","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/394/original/pims0091_CrockettJ-1_02.mp3?1624270795","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2950.03429,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["CrockettJ_102_OHMS_20220607 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: All right. Where were we? Eubie Blake?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yeah, Eubie Blake backstage at the Morris Mechanic, and Marion\nsaid to him, \"James, it's time for you to get ready.\" So he asked if we wanted\nsome autographs and we said yes, and he autographed \"I'm Just Wild about Harry\"\nfor me. And he asked my wife if she wanted one. So she said, \"No, Mr. Blake, one\nwas enough for the family.\" So he wrote one out for Mrs. Bascom, and Mrs. Bascom\nwas a music teacher at Lemmel Junior High School. And she took her autographed\ncopy of \"I'm Just Wild About Harry,\" and she showed it to the children in the\nschool, and somehow one of the students kept the music, and she never, it was\nnever returned to her. And she was probably disappointed.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is a disappointment. While we are on the subject of\nthese \"greats\" that you've become friends with, tell me about Duke. How did it\nall begin?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It all began when I saw him on stage. It was electrifying.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: When was this?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It must have been in 1938.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: You were quite young?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Quite young. And I just couldn't believe the musicians. And in\nthat band at that time, he had a fellow by the name of Juan Tizol! The fellow on\ntrombone, Lawrence Brown. Ivy Anderson was the vocalist with the band at the\ntime. If I'm not mistaken, Cootie Williams was with him, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bubber Miley, Harry\nCarney, Johnny Hodges, Sonny Greer to name a few who were in the band.\n\nAnd I asked him for an autograph. And he just smiled and gave it to me, and I\ntalked to him. I asked him where were they going when they leave Baltimore. And\nI asked him if he had been to Washington. And then, \"Let me tell you something\nabout Washington,\" and that's how he lead into a conversation, and he says,\n\"Washington is not like it was when I was a boy in Washington.\" And he just let\non. Just give him a little feed and he would go on.\n\nSo after that performance, I said, \"Wow, that's a beautiful tie.\" And he said,\n\"You like it?\" And I said, \"Yes.\" So he took it off and he gave it to me. So I\nsaid what a generous man. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=120.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the next time he came to the Royal, I took the tie\noff and I held it in my hand, and he looked at me and he recognized me and he\ndid like this. And I said to somebody, \"He wants me to come backstage.\" So I\ndon't know how to get back there. So the guy said, \"You got to go over to the\nend, come down this aisle, and go backstage.\" And I went backstage. He said to\nme, \"I wondered about you. How are you doing?\" I said, \"Fine.\" And I said, \"I\nwant to show you this tie.\" He said, \"Look, you kept that tie in such a\nbeautiful condition, I'm going to give you another one.\"\n\nSo I said to him, \"Do you want this one back?\" He said, \"No. You can have it.\"\nSo he gave me another tie, and I was really pleased. So from then on, every time\nhe would come to Baltimore, he would give me the tie that he was wearing. Except\none year he came through, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=180.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he had something that he called the \"Riverboat\nGambler.\" It was a shoe string tie. And he had it tied in a bow, and when the\nperformance was over, he said to me, \"I'm not going to give you this tie.\" And I\nsaid, \"Why?\" He said, \"Because I'm not going to give it to you.\" And I found out\nthat was the only one that he had. And it was part of a uniform that he was\nwearing. So he didn't give it to me.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: How many ties did you get from Duke Ellington?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I guess over--I guess I got about twenty-five ties. And all of\nthe fellows that I went around with knew that he was going to give me a tie. So\nthey would borrow the tie. They would say, let me borrow it. And I just want to\nwear it for the day. And that's what happened.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=240.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when I was in high school at Douglass, you had to go to school fully\ndressed. You had to wear a tie. You could not go into the classroom unless you\nhad a tie. So if you wore a sport shirt to school, and you knew you had, you\nwere going to certain teachers' classes, you had to have a tie, and you would\nstand on the outside of her door and borrow a tie to go into her class. And\nthat's what would happen to some of the ties. And they would say, hey, that's\nthe tie from Duke Ellington. You know.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: I'm sure when you were in high school, and you wore that\ntie from Duke Ellington you felt pretty special.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Very special, very special.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So you continued to go up to him after concerts?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: After concerts, we'd talk, and he would tell us about the trips,\nwhere he'd been, where he was going. We'd ask him about the music, and how he\ngot the idea of writing certain tunes. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=300.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I found out that riding on trains\ngave him the inspiration to write a lot of that music. And there's the sound of\na train in a lot of that music -- the cracking of the wheels of the train. And\nit's a lot of riding.\n\nWe only had two questionable encounters. One was in 1948. Duke had been out in\nSt. Louis, and there had been some type of a riot out there -- disturbance, and\nhe made the statement that we were not ready for integration at that time. So I\nsaw him in 1948 when he came to the Royal Theater, and it was a situation where\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=360.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the band played at the Royal, and before they left, they played at the Strand Ballroom.\n\nSo a lot of us took the instruments off the stage at the Royal, over the fence,\nto the Strand Ballroom, and walked them up the back steps so that they could get\nset up right after the end of the show. And so, as usual, we hung on the piano.\nSo I said to Duke, I said, \"Duke, you made a statement in St. Louis,\" and before\nI could finish my statement, he said, \"We're not ready.\" And I looked at him\nbecause the Murphy family and everybody else, the Carnes bunch and everybody\nelse was talking about integration ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=420.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and things should be better. And he made this\nstatement, and I just could not conceive of him making a statement like that.\n\nSo I guess he saw tears in my earseyes, and after hanging on the piano for maybe\nforty-five minutes, he said to me, go get me a soda pop. And he reached in his\npocket and he pulled out a dollar, and he said, and get one for yourself while\nyou're back there. So I went out and got two soda pops and I brought them back.\nAnd on the way going to get the soda pops, I started thinking about what he said\nabout not being ready. And I said to myself, \"Who does he think he is? What does\nhe know about whether or not we're ready for integration?\"\n\nAnd then I took maybe ten steps, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=480.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I realized the conversation that we had\nbefore he started playing, and I asked him where had he been. And he told me he\nhad been around the world. And then all of a sudden this hit me. Here's a man\nwho's been around the world, twice at that time. He played before kings and\nqueens and potentates and royalty and presidents, and here I am telling him or\nasking him or questioning him, what does he know? Where has he been? And I\nhadn't been out of Baltimore.\n\nSo it dawned on me that he should know. So when I got the sodas, I brought them\nback, and I set his on the piano so he could grab it, and I set mine on the\npiano. And a big change came over him. No, when I set the sodas down, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=540.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I took my\nposition on the piano again, and you had to wheedle needle your way through the\ncrowd to get to that stop, but they knew I had the sodas for him so they moved\naside so I could get up there. And then he said to me, \"Why aren't you dancing?\"\nSo I said, \"I didn't come here to dance.\" He said, \"What did you come here for?\"\nWe said, \"We came here to enjoy the music.\" And he said, \"Ah.\" It struck him\nthat we came to enjoy the music. And I said to him, \"We can dance to your music\nanytime because we have your records.\" And he smiled, and then I smiled, and\nthen that broke the ice, the relationship between us. And everything was fine\nfrom there on.\n\nThe other time was in 1952 ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=600.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"when Ella Fitzgerald and Nat King Cole were on the\ncard at the Coliseum. I took a young lady backstage with me, and Nat Cole and\nDuke had a heated argument, and I didn't know what the argument was all about.\nAnd it never came in the conversation. And Nat King Cole was smoking cigarettes\nlike a fire engine, and he would put on his shoes, and he'd light up a\ncigarette. He would go over into his luggage, pull out a shirt, unbutton his\nshirt, and he would light a cigarette. He would go in another place, get his\ntrousers, put them on, and he'd light [another] cigarette.\n\nSo I went around his dressing room ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=660.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"putting out the cigarettes, because he had,\nat one time--he had about six cigarettes going at the same time. So I went\naround putting out the cigarettes. So Duke said to me, \"Who told you to put out\nthose cigarettes?\" And it was the first time I ever heard his voice like that.\nSo I grabbed the young lady by her hand. I said, \"Let's go.\" So we started\ntoward the door, and I grabbed the doorknob, and he said to me, \"Who told you to\nleave?\" So I turned around, let the doorknob go, turned around, we went back and\nthen we sat on one of his suitcases. And then the argument continued.\n\nSo when Nat King Cole's time came to perform, when Nat opened the door, we went\nout with him. And then we saw Nat and then the rest of the show. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=720.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it wasn't\nuntil, I guess, maybe five years after Duke died when I was talking to Mercer,\nhis son, and I asked him what was the argument about. But prior to that time, I\nwas listening to Ed Sullivan on a Sunday night, and Ed said on his show that\nDuke Ellington and Nat King Cole had buried the hatchet, and they were very good\nfriends again. And I never knew what precipitated that.\n\nAnd when I asked Mercer what had happened, Duke wrote a song, and the song is \"I\nLove You Madly.\" Well after each musician would play his solo, he would announce\nthe musician. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=780.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like when Johnny Hodges finished his [saxophone] solo, he would\nsay, \"Johnny Hodges wants you to know that he loves you madly.\" And then, if\nCootie Williams played the next solo, he would say the same thing.\n\nWell, these shows are timed because you have different unions. You have a union\nfor the microphone; you have a union for the lights; you have a guy that's the\nstage manager. So if you go overtime, then you have to get permission from the\nmanager to see whether or not he's going to pay overtime to these people, and if\nhe doesn't pay overtime, then it comes to cutting part of the show. Well, after\nthis dissertation that Duke had with the audience, and by the time he made the\nthird announcement, when he announced the next musician, everybody joined in\nwith \"Loves you madly.\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=840.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was the introduction to this song.\n\nSo they cut Nat King Cole's time so he could not perform all of the compositions\nthat he wanted to perform. And that was what the argument was about.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Here in Baltimore?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: No. It didn't start here.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: But it came to Baltimore?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It came to Baltimore, and this is where I found out later on\nfrom Mercer what it was all about. It was the usurping of Nat King Cole's time.\nIt prevented him from giving a good performance of what he wanted to perform.\nAnd that's what the argument was all about.\n\nBut when he said, \"Who told you to put those cigarettes out\" and \"Who told you\nto leave?\" I tucked my tail between my legs and just sat down, you know,\namicably and just listened. That was the only two times that, you know, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=900.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it\nwasn't a good scenario.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And you also met the rest of the Ellington band?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Met the rest of the Ellington band, and my wife and I became\nvery good friends with the band while Duke was living, and we'd always go\nbackstage. They made one trip to Russia. They left Baltimore that Sunday night.\nThey performed on Lafayette Avenue, the place was 10 Lafayette Avenue; it was\ncalled The Scene. And they performed, and they were trying to get the musicians\nto go to Russia with them. So after the show, they stayed a long time, maybe two\nhours after the show trying to get some of the musicians to go to Russia with them.\n\nOne of the fellows was working in the post office in Philadelphia, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=960.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he was\ntrying to check his times, his leave times, his pick time with the post office,\nand the amount of money he was being paid on the trip, and to cost this out as a\nfactor whether he could take the trip. He was a trumpet player, and I don't know\nhis name now, but he was the main clog that was tying up things. So they left\nthat night to go back to New York to go to Russia.\n\nAnd after that trip, we saw them at the Polytechnic Auditorium on a Sunday\nafternoon, and when we saw Duke, he beckoned for my wife and I to come with him,\nand we went backstage in his dressing room, and we asked him about the trip.\nAnd, oh, he was very polite, telling us everything about the trip.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1020.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And after the show, Mercer said to us, all colored people should visit Russia at\nleast one time and see the conditions under which people live over there. And he\ncited one case. He said when we arrived, he said, one person was assigned to us\nat the hotel. And he said, \"He stayed with us, and at one time, he slipped a\nnote under the door asking for an autograph. And we autographed this piece of\npaper and we were going to hand it to him. When we opened the door, he was not\nthere and we never saw him again. And we were never able to get this autograph\nto this person.\" And he said, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1080.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"That's how close they were in observing them.\"\n\nAnd the people in Russia were just outgoing, so glad to see them. And they had a\nwonderful time over there.\n\nNow Duke had an unusual thing. In writing his songs, he wrote for the musicians\nin the band. And on his charts he would write Cootie, and that is what Cootie\nwas going to play. So in the rehearsal he would say to Cootie, \"I want you to do\nso and so and so and so,\" and Cootie knew just how to incorporate that feeling\nthat he was trying to relate to him. For any other musicians, the same thing\nabout Johnnie Hodges. He wrote Johnnie's name on it, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1140.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the charts.\n\nAnd the good thing about it is that when he played at these dances, he would\nintroduce a song, and the music that they were going to play, they had all that\nmusic with them. So the fascinating thing, and most of the people would watch\nthe band, and when he would hit the piano and they realized the tune that he\nwas. Like everybody went together, looking through the music to pull that music\nup, and put it right there in front of them. Everybody watched to see just how\nwell trained these men were.\n\nAnd I had two good experiences with them at the Left Bank. Have you heard about\nthe Left Bank?\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: In Baltimore?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: In Baltimore. The Left Bank was on Charles Street, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1200.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just before\nyou got to the North Avenue. It was a bowling alley downstairs. I think it was\ncalled The Charles, and it was like where the Charles Theater is now. And\nupstairs they had a dance hall. It was a group of Black guys, incorporated I\nguess, it was in the '40s, and they called themselves the Left Bank Society, and\nthey had these shows on Sunday afternoon. And we'd invite the musicians. So if\nthe musicians knew that they were playing at the Left Bank, they had a lot of\npeople that appreciated music, and they performed for them.\n\nWell, two of the experiences I had with Duke: He was very timely in his\nperformances, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1260.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"always on time. This particular Sunday afternoon the band was\nlate. And it was a mixed audience. There was always a good mixed audience at the\nLeft Bank. The band was late and Duke was late, and the people started milling\naround, they were in the lounge, and they were eating and they were talking. All\nof a sudden Duke came in with Harry Carney. Harry was the chauffeur. Harry\nplayed bass sax, baritone sax, and he was the chauffeur. So when they arrived,\nthe band wasn't there.\n\nThere was an accident on the New Jersey Turnpike, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1320.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the band couldn't get\nthrough. Traffic was tied up. So when Duke came in, he wasn't impeccable when he\nwas traveling in the car. When he got to the place he was going to perform, then\nhe would change his clothes, and he had a unique thing he would do when he would\nget into town, and he did this in every city. Harry would drive into a filling\nstation, and they'd load up with the gas, and Duke would ask the attendant, hey,\nwhere is the Duke Ellington Orchestra playing tonight? And the guy would say\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1380.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they're playing so and so and so and so, and Duke would say how do you get\nthere. And the guy would not realize who he was talking to, so he would say,\nwell, this is where you go, so and so and so and so, and would give them\ndirections. So that's how Duke knew where they were playing in any city.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Because everyone knew?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Everybody knew. Okay. So when Duke got to the, we'll call it The\nFamous Ballroom on Charles Street, and so when he got there, he realized that\nthe band wasn't there. So he apologized. He went right to the microphone and\nsaid to the people, \"My band is late getting here, but I'm going to entertain\nyou until the band arrives.\" When Duke got onto the stage at the Famous\nBallroom, he was not dressed like \"the Duke\", ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1440.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but he sat down at the piano and he\n\nplayed for about forty-five minutes -- just solos. He didn't take a break; he\njust played one song after another, and the crowd just ate him up.\n\nAnd then all of a sudden the band arrived. And when the band arrived, he\ncontinued to play, but they took their places on the bandstand. And I guess it\nwas about ten minutes while he was into playing that he struck up a tune, and\nthey all joined in. And when they joined in, he left the stand and went to the\ndressing room and he changed clothes and then he came back out.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And then he was Duke?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: And he was Duke. And he played overtime. He made up for the lost\ntime that they played, and everybody was satisfied.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1500.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then the other experience I had there: There was a fellow by the name of\nVernon Walsh, who was an announcer, the announcer over at the Famous Ballroom,\nand I told him and Mercer, I said, \"Mercer, you know Wednesday is Duke's\nbirthday, and we want to sing happy birthday to him.\" So he said, \"Well, you\nknow how pop feels about birthdays. He doesn't like birthdays.\" So I said,\n\"Okay.\" He said, \"But I'll cooperate with you,\" and he said, \"You just let me\nknow when you want us to strike up a song to him.\" And I told most of the\naudience, and so they were just waiting for the cue.\n\nWell, Vernon heard about it, and Vernon bought a birthday cake. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1560.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then when\nthere was a break, Vernon would normally announce the coming attractions, who's\ngoing to come, and then all of a sudden he said, \"Ladies and gentlemen, a friend\nof ours is going to have a birthday on Wednesday, and we want to sing happy\nbirthday to him.\" And then he said, \"The friend is Duke Ellington.\" And so when\nhe said that, the band struck up happy birthday. So everybody in the audience\nsang happy birthday to Duke Ellington. So he [Duke] looked out in the audience\nand he saw me, and he started pointing at me as if to say I'm going to get you.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: [Laughter] And did he?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: No. He just said I'm going to get you because he realized it was\nme. After that Vernon said, \"And we have a cake for you.\" So Duke blew the\ncandle out, and everybody started applauding, and then the band picked back up\nagain. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1620.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was the Famous Ballroom. He was a wonderful person.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So what you're talking about is really a culture then?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: It was a culture. And later on Mercer and I had been after Duke\nto revive a show. The show was \"Jump for Joy\", and they played it out in\nCalifornia, and I don't think it got a good reception. It was almost an opera.\nAnd everybody in Jump for Joy were selected people that Duke had selected to\nparticipate in Jump for Joy. I think the Barry Brothers were in it, they were\ntap dancers ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1680.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I was trying to get them to revive that show, and I couldn't\nget a consensus from them to do it.\n\nSo after Duke died, Mercer decided to do a show that was called Sophisticated\nLadies, and my wife and I went over to the Kennedy Center on a Saturday night\nand on the try outs. And it was a beautiful show. And we didn't know how to get\nbackstage to see them. So after the show, we exited the theater, and we were\ngoing toward the back of the theater, and my wife said to me, I don't think\nwe're gonna get a chance to see them. And at that time, when she said that,\nMercer was right in our face, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1740.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he grabbed us and hugged us. My wife said to him,\n\n\"Mercer, Duke would be proud of this show.\" So he said, \"Thank you.\" He said, \"I\nneeded that from you because you knew pop and you knew how funny he could be\nsometimes.\" And he said, \"I just needed that from you.\" And he said, \"I'm in a\nhurry right now, but he said I want you to come back and see the show next\nSunday night. I'm going to leave tickets at the box office for you. So if you\ncan come over, I want you to see the show because we have some revisions that we\nwant to make in the show.\"\n\nAnd we thanked him for the tickets and then we left. But we didn't get back to\nsee the show that next Sunday night. And the reason we didn't get back to see\nthe show that next Sunday night ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1800.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was because Roots was being introduced that same\nSunday night on television, and we stayed home to see Roots, and we didn't go to\nsee the show.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Now that we're talking about the later phases of jazz in\nBaltimore, what effect did integration have on the Royal Theater, on The Strand,\nand all these venues? How did integration change the music in the Baltimore\nBlack community?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Where the Hippodrome was concerned, you could see the white\nmusicians in alleys along Baltimore Street. You'd never see them on Eutaw\nStreet. And you could talk to them. So this was our venue in seeing them. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1860.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But\nwhite people could always go to the Royal Theater to see the shows. So as far as\nwhites being integrated in the Black community, it wasn't a problem. Now, there\nwas a group of white people that continuously went to the Royal Theater to see shows.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: So there would be a portion of the audience then in every\nRoyal Theater show that was white?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yeah. And they would sit, and the audience was Black and the\naudience was accustomed to it. Now, I don't know if these people were the ones\nthat were going to the symphony orchestras, or they went to Philadelphia or\nother places, and they were accustomed to it. And so it wasn't a big change\nwhere they were concerned.\n\n[Pause] It was like--when integration came, it hurt the Black community. Because\nthe shows that we used to see, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1920.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we didn't see anymore. The theaters that we used\nto go to see the movie, we didn't go to them anymore. They started going to the\nHippodrome, the Town, and the other theaters that you could go to.\n\nBut where music was concerned, then you had a larger number of the white people\nthat started coming to the integration of the affairs that we had. Now at the\nLeft Bank Jazz Society there was a group of white people there all the time. And\nwe were very fortunate, and we had a fellow by the name of Harley Brinsfield.\nHarley was a record collector, and he played records on the radio\n\nstation called WITH. They were located at Seven East Lexington Street. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=1980.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And\nHarley had a sandwich shop on McMechen Street. He was the first one that came\nout with this sub sandwich. Made a lot of sandwiches on McMechen Street. And he\nbecame the sandwich king.\n\nAnd he played these records and the conversations that he had with the\nmusicians. And so he was a great influence in integrating Baltimore City's white\nand black community.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: What about the demise of Pennsylvania Avenue?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: The demise of Pennyslvania Avenue came because the white power\nstructure felt that all of the crime emanated from Pennsylvania Avenue. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2040.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There\nwere a lot of pawn shops on Pennsylvania Avenue, a lot of nightclubs, a lot of\npackage goods stores. So the white community felt that Pennsylvania Avenue was\nsimilar to the Block on Baltimore Street.\n\nNow when you mention the Block, it consists of more than one block, because you\nhave the stuff that started prior to Calvert Street. There was a Read's Drug\nStore on the corner, and part of that was the Block, and then on the other side\nof Gay Street, all the way down to Market Place, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2100.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that was part of the Block. And\nthen outside of that, Betty Mills had a club down around the nine, or ten, or\neleven hundred block of East Baltimore Street, and they had some entertainment\ndown there. And there were strip shows in the tenth and eleven hundred block of\nEast Baltimore Street, which all was part of this thing of shows, entertainment.\n\nSo white people got the impression that Pennsylvania Avenue was similar to the\nBlock, and they wanted to eradicate the crime and all of the bad things, and\nthey decided to demolish the things that were the central attractions to blacks\non Pennsylvania Avenue. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2160.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The strange phenomenon is that a lady by the name of\nVictorine Adams was in the City Council at the time, and her husband is William\nL. \"Little Willie\" Adams. And from Biddle Street up, or from Franklin Street up,\nthe buildings were demolished on Pennsylvania Avenue, and it went all the way up\nto the block that Mr. Adams had his nightclub in. His nightclub was the Casino,\nand he owned from Mosher Street up to McMechen, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2220.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in that block, so all of that\nwas saved. And even today, that one block stands. And from Franklin Street up on\nthe south side, all that stuff was demolished and they put housing.\n\nAnd then on the other side, they built a school, the Furman Templeton School at\nDolphin Street. And that goes all the way to Lafayette Avenue and it encompasses\nthe area where the Royal Theater used to be.\n\nAnd then on the other side of that you had Glen Dowdy, Doughty, who was part of\nthe Baltimore Colts, and he built the Shake and Bake Recreation Center there,\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2280.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and that took up the space where the Regent Theater used to be.\n\nThere were a group of people here, and their name was Rahom, and they owned a\nnumber of theaters. They owned the Harlem Theater on Gilmore Street, which used\nto be a church. They owned the Regent, they owned the Diane, and I think in\nAnnapolis they owned the Star Theater. So they controlled the theaters, and the\nDiane, the Regent were the ones that they didn't touch, they left the theaters,\nbut the Royal Theater they got rid of.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Why do you think people started to lose interest in the\nRoyal and the Strand? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2340.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did people within the Black community begin to lose interest?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: They lost interest because of the type of shows that they were\nbringing in. In the early '60s, a group came through throughout the United\nStates called hippies. And originally these were wealthy white kids that were\nrebelling against their parents. And they took out on their own, and they banded\ntogether, had communes and things like that. And a lot of Blacks latched onto\nthat because it was a way of expressing themselves, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2400.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and many of them did not\nknow who they were.\n\nSo this influence came in with a lot of music that people just did not\nappreciate. It was loud, a lot of guitars, and people just didn't appreciate the\nmusic so they just lost interest in going to the shows.\n\nBut Duke Ellington said, there are two types of music, good music and bad music.\nAnd he said if music is good, it's good. Meaning that if bad music is good to\nthe people that appreciate bad music, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2460.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then it's music. So actually what he was\nsaying, there's only type of music, and that's good music.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Good music?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Yes. Because it appeals, that type of appeal. And that's true.\nSo people stopped going to the Royal, and they started going to other theaters.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: What about you?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: What about me? I go to theaters. I go to the Arena, I go to,\nwhat's the name of it on Calvert Street? Seven hundred block of Calvert Street.\nI can't think of it now--\n\nCenter Stage. I go to Center Stage. I go to some of the shows, down at Peabody.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2520.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Maryland Historical Society had a theater at one time. I used to go in there\nto some of their live shows. But my theater experience goes back, again, to the\n'30s, at the Ford's Theater when it was on Fayette Street and colored people had\nto sit in the gallery. I would see those shows.\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: But I had a wonderful experience in the '40s. It must have been\nstarted '46, '47. And it was with Paul Robeson. I had an interracial basketball\nteam ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2580.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the city of Baltimore would not let these White and Black kids play in\nthe recreational centers. So we had to go to the synagogues and some of the\nchurches that had auditoriums and gymnasiums for us to play. And then in this\ngroup, I met a doctor by the name of Dr. John E.T. Camper, a Black physician. It\nwas on Carey Street, and he introduced us to Paul Robeson. And at that time,\nPaul was influenced by the Progressive Party. And we traveled with him --\nPhiladelphia, Baltimore, and Washington. So I was exposed to him, and this gave\nme a different insight into music and how people were treated. And I learned a\nlot from Paul Robeson.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2640.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So he was in Baltimore then?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Here in Baltimore, he stayed here for a good while. There were a\nlot of people here that were very friendly with him. The Hollanders. Sidney\nHollander Jr. and Sidney Hollander Sr. were very, very good friends of Paul\nRobeson and a lot of the Black entertainers that came to Baltimore. Sid's father\nowned a cough medicine that was called REM. He bought the formula and they\npackaged the medicine and they sold the medicine, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2700.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they're very good\nphilanthropists, even today.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: I'm also wondering, you'd mentioned that you're involved\nquite a bit in real estate. Does this ever factor in -- Did you ever work with\nmusicians at all on a business level or -- ?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: Never worked with them from the business level, except being a\nsponsor for the local musicians. We used to do some shows. Dances. And a couple\nof clubs that I belong to -- I was a business manager, so I engaged the\norchestras to play for the clubs. Tracy [McCleary's] band was one of the\norchestras that we employed and Bubby Johnson ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2760.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and Seaman Elridge and Preston\nDuncan -- all the local bands. I engaged them to play for the clubs that I was a\nmember of. And they played for these dances.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: Well, I think that'll just about do it for today. Do you\nhave maybe one more memory from any of these clubs or theaters?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: I think it would be two performers -- Ella Fitzgerald and Chick\nWebb. Chick Webb was a Baltimorean living in East Baltimore. He had a hump in\nhis back and he was short. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2820.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was an excellent musician. And I met Ella when she\nwas real young with the band. And Ella Fitzgerald always had a baby\ncharacteristic in her personality. She was always so humble and agreeable. And\nwhen we would go to the shows and we would see her, she would just grab you and\nhug as if she was just part of the family. And she carried this thing on\nthroughout the entire time that -- [quietly] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2880.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394/transcript/38411/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll call him right back.\n\n[END OF PART 2]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117394#t=2940.0,3000.0"}]}]},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - pims0091_CrockettJ-2_01.mp3"]},"duration":121.05143,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/117/395/small/crockett.jpg?1649883611","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/395/original/pims0091_CrockettJ-2_01.mp3?1624270796","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":121.05143,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/transcript/38412","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["CrockettJ_201_OHMS_20220607 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/transcript/38412/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CROCKETT: She [Ella Fitzgerald] would make you feel so at ease. She would\nwatch you while she was singing, and then after the song and you start\napplauding, she would say thanks for your help. She'd say, I saw you over there\nhelping me sing that song. I couldn't have put it over if it hadn't been for\nyou. That kind of relationship is what she established with the people. And she\nnever outgrew that, you know, just a friendly, friendly person.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: And the audience knew that?\n\nJAMES CROCKETT: And the audience knew it. And you could just wrap your arms\naround her, and she'd wrap her arms around you and say, hello. You know, that\ntype of thing.\n\nPearl Bailey was like that too. But Pearl was a little more sophisticated, and\nwe'd take her around Baltimore on these tours, visiting nightclubs and things\nlike that. And Charlie Barnet and Artie Shaw, and Charlie Spivack. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395#t=0.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/transcript/38412/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All of these\nmusicians, we would do that for them.\n\nSo it was just a wonderful relationship. And the big change is that now they\nhave bodyguards, and, you know, you have to be careful how you go up to them.\nThey won't let you see them. He's busy or she's, you know, she's engaged in\nsomething else.\n\nBut the Ellington orchestra is still friendly like that. You can see them at any\ntime. And I advise people to go back and speak to them because they want to know\nwhat's going on in the city, and they want to feel how you appreciate their music.\n\nDANIEL THOMAS DAVIS: That's great. Thank you very much, Mr. Crockett. It's been\na pleasure.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395#t=60.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395/transcript/38412/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44120/file/117395#t=120.0,180.0"}]}]}]}