{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/iiif/sx6445j69v/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["William Hill oral history, 2002 March 27"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":[" Interview of Baltimore jazz musician William Hill by Elizabeth Schaaf. (Abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":[" 2002-03-27 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":[" Hill, William (Interviewee)"," Schaaf, Elizabeth M. (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":[" English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://aspace.library.jhu.edu/repositories/4/archival_objects/215363"]}}],"summary":{"en":[" Interview of Baltimore jazz musician William Hill by Elizabeth Schaaf."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["The collection is open for use. Contact peabodyarchives@lists.jhu.edu for more information."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/008/original/peabody-institute.logo.large.horizontal.blue.cropped.png?1549570058","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - pims0091_HillW_minidisc.mp3"]},"duration":4236.87837,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-peabody.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/117/428/original/pims0091_HillW_minidisc.mp3?1624270862","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4236.87837,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_pims0091_HillW_minidisc.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, I think we're in good shape now. We're starting out with a fresh tape.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=0.78,7.02"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e [unclear] One minute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=11.73,11.73"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[INDISTINCT VOICE ON RECORDER SPEAKER]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=16.2,16.202"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I've had that ever since I --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=17.28,18.18"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that's great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=18.72,19.08"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I just used it the other day, see if it would work. But this one I had in class in New York. I've got a mic for it. I've got to get me some new equipment. I just didn't see how it was going to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=20.22,31.77"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I wanted to ask you, where was your first job, your first playing job?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=32.97,37.11"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e In my hometown, in Virginia -- Norfolk. I told you, I used to travel from Norfolk, back. We had sort of like a network that we did all the areas in Norfolk, below. -- North Carolina and further down the southern end of the country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=39.479,53.07"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. And what was the the name of the first group that you were playing with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=53.91,59.13"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e John Thomas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=60.09,60.45"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e John Thomas Group. And how did you get to get involved with them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=61.14,65.519"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it's like any town. Whenever a young musician starts to study and the people around who were in the entertainment area, they find out about them, they come and look at them. And if you found that promising -- because when I played for that [John] Coltrane stuff -- I was into Coltrane back when I was playing. I told you when I got in Great Lakes, I was afraid to come down [unclear] because I was around a lot of great musicians who've been performing with the biggest bands in the country. Dudley Brooks, like I told you, Luther Henderson, a guy named Charlie Barnet -- he was a Black guy, but his name was Charlie Barnet too, like the White Charlie Barnet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=67.2,110.346"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And I remember we used to have the DownBeat magazine. Something Nat Hentoff said in that magazine one time. He used to go down to the Village Gate [club] and he'd listen, he went down, he'd listen to guys like, oh, what's the guy's name with Count Basie? Tenor player. You know, the name, I just can't think of the name. The tenor player with Count Basie all those years. And then when you start to go down to the Village Gate and guys like Thad Jones, Miles Davis, Coltrane and all these guys started to hang around. He came, he used to come back uptown and tell Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, and them guys, \"You guys better go down and listen to them guys.\" They may have had a little bit better chance than I had in the [unclear]. But when he'd listen to -- You ever listen to Coltrane?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=110.99,172.305"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Mmm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=173.938,173.938"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e So you know, the scope of that horn was right under his fingers. I mean, he didn't just play in one area of the horn, like most men who play horn, just playing little rhythms. He was over that horn. And Nat Hentoff, he wrote a lot of stuff on musicians. \"Got to go down and listen to them guys. They're playing.\" And I think it was his kind of man and few others who began to make the White world aware of what the Black musician was doing. But I've got to find me an 8-track. I've got a lot of 8-track tapes, but I can't play on that. I know how to play discs, I know how to play cassettes, and record from cassette to cassette. But I just got that. And on my old set I would record from the record to the tape. But he used to tell me, \"You've got to go down and listen to them guys.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=173.952,239.772"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Tell me about the first tour that you went on. That must have been really exciting. The first time when you went off on the road, what was that like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=240.05,247.8"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Most of my traveling, once I got into the navy, mostly when I was playing in Virginia, where I was born. I played locally around those two states [unclear].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=248.03,255.711"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e That's when you were traveling around in the hearse with the trailer? And who was it again that had the hearse?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=258.29,262.94"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Guy named Sammy Harris.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=263.93,264.194"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Sammy Harris, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=264.89,265.8"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And his band was the Barons of Rhythm. And it was a big -- one of those long hearse things. And what he did was bought a trailer and had it hooked up onto the -- like the trailer we hook behind things today. And we used to put all our instruments in the trailer. One time a guy hit the trailer, tore up all our instruments, I'll never forget that. And then we had -- once in a while, a fellow would be fortunate enough to have a car, but people didn't make a lot of money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=265.96,294.38"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e What kind of places were you playing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=296.09,297.23"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Small clubs. Small nightclubs and most of the clubs had -- once in a while you had a guy fortunate enough that had a car. We had to travel mostly in that hearse. Because where we were going -- Well, once you got a few people, people were loyal then. You came into a town, you couldn't get in the club hardly. But what we'd make -- I played many nights for two dollars and a half. For the whole night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=298.55,325.64"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Two dollars and a half probably went a whole lot farther than it did today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=327.786,330.59"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=331.26,331.76"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e You had mentioned playing at the end of the harvest season. Tell me a little bit about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=335.93,343.82"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what would happen -- after the farmers had gotten all of their crops in for the year, they would throw a big thing for all the young people, girls and boys, and they would invite the bands from -- well, Norfolk was the closest city. I don't think [North Carolina] A \u0026 T [University] -- North Carolina didn't have a lot of groups playing out of North Carolina at that time. Norfolk was the place to supply most of the entertainment. So all of the jobs came in -- because I think our local [labor union chapter] came in the 1940s. Our local 702. 802 is in New York. And 702, they used to contact our union office. That's when we got the local. Before that time, the guy there had a lot of contact and they would write people -- they knew a lot of people, the guys that had the bands. Until that time, that's how we got --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=344.3,396.773"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Doing this fall, after all the crops were in. The owners of these different farms and the different places in North Carolina and South Carolina, they would make contact with the guy -- most of the guys are barbers. And they had bands at night. Most of the guys that owned the bands were barbershop guys. And they would cut hair during the day and on weekends, sometimes he would -- The barbershop would be open with the guy that was there, but he'd be on a road with his band. And we'd travel to North Carolina and we might have a two-week stay in Ahoskie, North Carolina, the [unclear] club and other clubs. And we'd play from club to club like that and then circle back into our home fort, you know? But I had a beautiful time, and I just never forgot that. Sometimes I sit right here in the chair and I get so filled up, I cry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=396.79,456.62"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e And when you were coming back, I mean, coming back and forth to Maryland from Norfolk, working in agriculture, what about going back and forth? I mean, was there any entertainment on the boats? Was it strictly work? You got on the boat? And then you --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=458.21,477.26"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we got here. We stayed in what we called shanties -- little houses they built for the help? And we stayed there the whole season. See, but I was only about a teenager then -- I was about up to sixteen or seventeen years old. From six years old till about middle teenage years. We had to stay in high school then. I picked from six years old till middle teenage years. Worked in the field picking strawberries, tomatoes. Worked in the canning factories in Westover, Maryland. Mitchell's canning factory. You know that? Up in Aberdeen, just below Havre de Grace.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=477.38,518.416"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And my mother worked for Mitchell, the people. They fell in love with her and she worked for them. In fact, they and another family -- and I'll tell you, that's why a lot of young people, especially my people, don't know -- see, they've got all this hate for White people, but they don't know a lot of the older people. Because we couldn't get into the areas that we should have been able to go into. I can't think of this lady. There was a lady that my mother worked for in Norfolk. [unclear] Little bit of money. And this was in a place called West Ghent. That was a very popular area. One of the upper-class neighborhoods. Sometimes when I drive through there now, I say, \"It used to be we couldn't come over here. Now, they all live out there.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=523.71,576.04"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e And where was this again?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=576.24,576.9"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e This is in Norfolk, Virginia. An area called West Ghent. I think it was G-H-E-N-T. And we had another area -- Larchmont. That was a upper-class area where Black people didn't live out there at that time. Lambert's Point. Was a lot of Black people living in Lambert's Point . But we had to sit in a streetcar like they had; used to go around Fremont Street [unclear] and we would get on the streetcar on Sundays. I think for five cents we could ride all the way to the naval base and back in town, five or ten cents. And on Sunday, that's what the kids would do. In the late 1930s, that's when I started playing, and from the '30s on I played from 1939 to 1980 in nightclubs. What was that, about sixty years? Forty years? 1939 to1980? That's close to forty years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=577.32,636.014"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there music in the camps, the agricultural camps --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=638.559,643.269"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e No, except, if you had a few musicians and everybody played guitar, whatever. You didn't have no thing come in. And what we did in the camps, especially the boys, we were into boxing and stuff like that. And then we got through working, we'd do a little work things, the kids would wrestle and box and play cards, play checkers or whatever. And then what we would do, when you're young -- I used to walk fifty miles a day and now I can hardly make it down to the parking lot. I was telling this gentleman that I was talking to when you came in -- I said, \"What we need to do is get out of those cars.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=644.48,676.25"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e It's good for you. Now tell me about going in the Navy. When did that --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=677.96,681.938"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I went into the Navy in 1944.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=682.55,683.33"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1944. And where were you living when you went in the Navy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=684.71,688.754"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Norfolk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=690.39,690.39"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e You were still in Norfolk?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=690.604,690.755"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Living in Norfolk. And guess who delivered my draft paper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=691.55,692.63"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Who is that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=693.32,693.62"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I was working in the post office when I went in the Navy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=695.54,696.6"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no! So you delivered your own draft papers? Oh, for heaven's sakes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=697.1,701.21"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And I had worked in the shipyard, Norfolk portion of the naval shipyard -- something like Sparrow's Point. But see, y'all don't have no water, we got water. You want to see some big ships sitting in the water, them big aircraft carriers -- I think I had to build the [USS] Hornet, I had to build the Alabama battleship and I had to build the Wasp battleship. And I kept getting deferred because I was working in the shipyard. But in 1944, I got my own draft paper, but I was working in the post office and I delivered it myself. So I had to -- I think it was May of 1944 when I got drafted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=701.99,743.06"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e So you couldn't complain about the mailman delivery. [Laughter]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=743.87,746.39"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I left right then, and my first place was Great Lakes. Chicago, Illinois. And I had a beautiful time. I tell people you wouldn't take a lot of money for that. I'm sorry for you, boy, because someone will get hurt. But like this man, I tell him all the time. Ike Hextall [phonetic], the fellow I told you about. He had two sons. He told me he spent all his time protecting his son. I think you spent all your time making a mistake. I think that's a terrible mistake for any father to do -- to try to protect his children. You protect your children up to your capability as an adult parent. But you do not try to keep your children out of things that will mature and develop them into adults. These boys are all right, but they're not what they ought to be as men. Because his son is fifty now and he's got another one in the late forties, and his wife is in the nursing home now. He had a little money, too. I said, \"Your trouble was, you got angry, and you pampered your children too much.\".","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=749.54,809.27"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I left home when I was twenty-one. I have never been back. Nobody in my family, my sister's children. We didn't allow it. When you got grown, when you came in and told me you were grown, I told you -- They knew about children. Now, I understand -- because she'd tell me, I understand how you feel of the woman, but the rest of the world don't love your child. You love him. You're going to be dead. If you're going with what the good Lord says, your children are going to survive you. She used to always say, \"I hope I live long enough so that my children can become adults so they can look out for themselves.\" When she died, I was forty-seven years old. When my father died, I was thirty-two. Everybody was grown. None of us ever came back home. Never. And like I told you, see that picture sitting over there? The one with me on the far end? That's my picture. That picture was taken in 1940 -- what I got written on the back of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=811.37,876.29"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now tell me about in the Navy -- what part of the navy, what did they assign you to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=877.84,883.78"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Everybody has to go to boot camp first, but I only stayed in boot camp four weeks because once they found out I was a musician, I spent the rest of my time in the Navy band.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=884.5,894.49"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. And which band was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=896.138,896.68"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That was band number 9, the one I was in . We had a lot of bands because we had about five hundred musicians in the barrack. So they make up bands and ship them out. And my band was shipped to Pensacola, Florida, my first day, tour of duty. And that's from Chicago. Then when I got to Pensacola, Florida, Captain Mead [phonetic] wanted to take us to Hawaii with him. But every time they would try to ship us someplace with the captain who wanted to take the band -- because he was crazy about our band. We got shipped to Memphis, Tennessee, NATTC [Naval Air Technical Training Center]. And that's where I stayed until I retired. I mean, until I got this job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=897.34,945.85"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e And then what happened after the navy, when you got out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=948.22,951.396"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e When I got out, I went back in the post office in 1948.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=952.5,955.06"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Was that back in Norfolk?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=956.139,956.26"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, went back to Norfolk 1946, I think was in May or June. I think it was around May of 1946. I went back to the post office. Then I worked in the post office until my mother decided she wanted to move to Aberdeen, since my younger sister, who graduated from the University of Maryland, was a nurse. She worked at Johns Hopkins for a long while too. Taught. She taught at the Black hospital that used to be right up the street here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=956.89,989.151"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Providence?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=992.45,992.45"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Providence. My sister taught up there too. So we were the two that had the background that could get jobs easily. So I transferred to Social Security in 1955. I tried to transfer to other places, but they wouldn't -- Even they had a lot of prejudices because the government was trying to change too. So a lot of the White boys was transferring whenever they wanted and coming back whenever they wanted. We had one fellow whose name with Grandy [phonetic], he transferred to White Plains, New York. So when I went to Washington, because I was getting tired of people pushing me around. I went to Washington and talked with the Civil Service Commission. So the guy said, \"I'm going to give you some good advice.\" He said, \"You sound like a brilliant young man.\" He said, \"You're doing the right thing -- you should fight.\" He said, \"But if you fight, here's what's going to happen -- If they transfer you, you got some people saying down there they don't like you. They'll put everything they can put in your file to sound bad. And it would take you ten years to work your way out from underneath you wherever you go.\" What he told me is that, \"You say you want to go and work for security -- \" He said, \"You ain't got no problem. Go to Baltimore and go out and get the papers and fill out their examination forms and take the test.\" So I made 95 on the test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=993.679,1076.821"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Because when I was in the post office, I got regular in two months, I was regular. And when I first got in the post office, we had to take these schemes -- [unclear] little cars until you know the streets in the city. My supervisor was named Dewey Barnes [phonetic], I never forget that. And Mr. Graham [phonetic] was the postmaster. Mr. Graham called me up in his office. He said, \"Mr. Barnes said he's having a little problem with you, because -- \" By this time, I'm getting angry, Elizabeth. All I'm trying to do is make it. And if you're [unclear] me and stomping in my face, and putting your [unclear] all over -- You ought to do something before you get too angry. But I'm not a mean person. [unclear] she was worried about me for a long time because she thought I got a double barreled shotgun in there, it's a hundred and some years old now, that my dad had, 12 gauge. But my mother, she used to be scared every time I'd leave the house. Because by this time, I was getting to be a young man and she'd [unclear]. One time I wanted to go away and work and she was trying to keep me home. But he put my mother's stick on my collar, put my bag on and told me to go [unclear]. \"Now, don't worry about it. He's been taught. He knows how to behave himself.\".","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1076.821,1155.74"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And me and my cousin came over here, and worked in the field -- that was about eighteen men. And we came over and worked the line all the way up to -- And we got to go back. We wanted to save our money. We walked from Salisbury to Pocomoke [Maryland]. That's thirty-four miles by the roadside. Then we walked -- I think we caught a tractor trailer and the guy gave us a ride down to Cheriton, Virginia. And we worked from Cheriton, Virginia to Cape Charles. We walked all that way to save our money, to go back to school. But I didn't have time to get angry with people. I get momentarily angry because I'm human. And so as I went long I said, \"I'm not going to let these folks get the best of me, I'm going to do this thing.\" But that's when I got really interested in music. I think I bought my first saxophone when I was nineteen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1156.82,1213.19"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Where'd you get that saxophone?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1214.84,1215.56"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e From a store called Levy Page [phonetic], a music store in my hometown. They fell in love with me too, but they said, \"He's struggling.\" And the salesman -- I wasn't making much money. And sometimes when my payment would become due on my saxophone, he'd come and take my saxophone. He would tell me, he said, \"Billy, we're not going to sell your horn. When you get some money, come down and bring your payment. We're going to give you your horn back.\" So I'd go out and get me a job, pumping up bicycles twelve hours a day for one dollar. When I saved up enough money, I'd go down, they had my horn in a case, they'd dust it off and give it back to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1216.28,1255.9"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e You worked hard for that instrument.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1258.31,1259.33"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So, you know, that's what I tell people, I say, \"All people are not bad. They are always going to be some bad people around, all the time.\" I say, \"But you can't say people are bad because of their ethnicity. You just can't say that. Like I told you, this man, Bristol Harding [phonetic], he let me into school. He didn't have to. The law said I couldn't get in there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1259.87,1277.21"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, when you came to Baltimore, you must have fallen into the -- Well, I wanted to back up. Who were some of the people you were playing with in the band in the Navy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1278.47,1289.48"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Let me see if I can name some of those guys. I'm going to go and take a look at them, give me just a moment. You're all right, just pull your chair, I can get behind you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1291.97,1303.13"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And this band was a local band in my hometown. All these men were highly educated men. [unclear] This is my hometown. I'll tell you what that was. This is a guy named -- that's [unclear] standing up there. The taller guy, that's George Robinson [phonetic]. He was the guy with the money in my hometown at that time. This is him here. You could go ahead and play with him and he'd come back in and his father gave him enough money to pay a band on. This is a guy that was named -- he was from Birmingham, Alabama. Most of the Black guys had studied in the south. I told Scotty [phonetic] that. I said, \"You guys, you moved up a little bit further east and you thought everybody loved you and they didn't.\" This was Vernon [phonetic] -- he taught high school. This was a guy who played trombone. He was a machinist. This guy taught school. He was a local boy -- played drums. This was a professor at Norfolk State University. He was in charge of the music department.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1313.38,1384.42"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And this was me. This is Spears [phonetic]. This is me. And this is Lillian [phonetic]. Boy, she could sing. And this was my local band in my hometown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1385.89,1399.45"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. And that was Bobby Robinson [phonetic]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1400.29,1401.75"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Bobby Robinson's band.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1402.78,1403.53"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e This guy played baritone sax. I think he was from Alabama. All these guys in the Navy really were from all over the country. I'll just lay this down here till I can put it back up there. And these guys were in my Navy band. This is Leon Hawkins [phonetic], lives in Detroit, but he was from Birmingham.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1409.94,1432.04"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And this is Palmer [phonetic], from South Carolina. Naval guys. And his father had a lot of money, too. And this was Timmons [phonetic] -- Kansas City. And this is Griffin [phonetic]. Played baritone sax. And this is me. And this was the band of Social Security of. Pete Derido [phonetic], he was on crutches. You ever see him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1438.49,1480.59"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I haven't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1481.9,1482.38"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I think he was from Atlanta, Georgia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1482.95,1485.32"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Pete Derido. And that's here in Baltimore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1486.426,1488.29"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Social Security. You should plan to see him. He was standing there -- He couldn't walk. And all the guys, we had to pick him up and put him on the bus. [unclear] All of these guys are smart men. This is the Navy band -- that's the whole band down there. I'll see if I can get this off here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1490.59,1508.837"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, let me get my glasses so I can see them. Now this was Chester Lane [phonetic], out of St. Louis. This was Raymond Elridge [phonetic] out of St. Louis. This was [unclear] out of Cincinnati. Used to call him \"Rabbi\". All these guys' names I'm trying to remember, I haven't talked to them in fifty-some years. This is our drummer. This is another young fellow -- he was out of Cincinnati, too. This guy was from Alabama. New York. Played trumpet. Benjamin Morton [phonetic]. He was from Birmingham, Alabama too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1515.6,1584.403"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And of course, you got Leon Hawkins, you got his name. Another guy -- this guy was out of Detroit. And this is the guy I just showed you with the saxophone. He's out of Sumter, South Carolina. I think I told you about Timmons. And this guy was something like our valet. He loved music, but he couldn't play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1591.72,1621.7"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e See, you always got people around, relaxed. The gentleman -- I just gave you his name earlier when you came in here -- because he asked me, \"How come I didn't see you?\" I said, \"Well, if you played that well, I would have seen you,\" but he didn't play that well. He had a lot of training. I don't think he had the talent. The talent wasn't there. I told him, said, \"You made one mistake.\" And he tells me, he said, \"You're right, I learned that -- [unclear].\" I said, \"When you came out to the clubs and told the people you play piano, you made a mistake. I think you should've kept your mouth shut. When you play this instrument, we don't expect you to have no problems. Not if you're good. If you play the piano, we don't expect no problem. If you play the guitar, the piano, any chord instrument, we do not expect problems out of you. Now, playing a one line instrument, you've got to do all the studying like I've done, and that's what they don't understand how I was able to do it. Well, he went up to the clubs, down to the union hall, and told the guy he played piano. He said the guys gave him a fit, 'cause he'd have to learn all that stuff. I said, \"You made a mistake. You told him you're the piano player. They didn't expect no problem. You tell someone -- This is a monster. All the great writers -- Chopin, Brahms, Bach, all the men knew [unclear] like eating breakfast. This is their monster. If you know this [unclear], you're not going to have no problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1623.65,1702.64"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm certain you've heard this before, about this piano [laughs]. My only regret is that I didn't realize that much younger and learn more about it. I still know I know the piano, but I don't play it that well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1705.46,1718.93"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, tell me when you came to Baltimore, how did you get involved in the club scene now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1720.37,1725.26"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I was here two years before they would let me play. I told you, they're very clannish people. And I never got angry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1726.04,1733.12"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e What made the difference? What opened it up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1736.09,1737.95"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I started eventually making connection with different musicians. I met a gentleman who was a fine tenor player. He wasn't in town much, but he was good. I met Lou Bennett [phonetic], who was an organ player, organist. I met a guy named Frendell [phonetic]. Tenor player. He traveled a lot. And when he came in town, told the guys, \"You're going to let this guy play\" [unclear]. And a guy named Christian. We used to call him Rebop [phonetic]. He lived up here on Retreat Street, and he was going to find his tenor players [unclear] this town. They used to have a club down here on Fremont Street. I think it was called the 511 Club. When he saw me, he told me, \"Come in,\" and he let me play. When I got down on that night he put my horn again and took me up on the stage and I played. Because I hadn't played in two or three years, I was fumbling. But know what he said? He said, \"You fumbling, but I think you there. You just need to keep playing. Need practice.\" Because I hadn't played in two or three years like -- I have my flute, I haven't played that in ten years. But I need to work like I started working on it. [unclear]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1738.58,1811.13"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e But why'd I go to this place, I ask myself. I thought these people were different. Very clannish people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1814.44,1819.67"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e So how long were you with the 511 Club and where did you go after that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1823.6,1828.04"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I've been here in Baltimore since 1955. From club to club, up and down the [Pennsylvania] Avenue and places like that. And I played in a lot of clubs in East Baltimore, the Club Orleans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1828.85,1839.12"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Who was over at the Club Orleans when you were playing there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1841.18,1843.819"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e The organist was named Warren Patterson [phonetic]. He was one of the few organists -- now, he was a nice guy. You know, the truth of the matter, Elizabeth -- when you got around fine musicians, you didn't have no problem. It was musicians that was afraid that you were much better than anyone, and he wasn't going to let you play, 'cause the boss would -- Hey, they would, the bosses would do that. I didn't want to take nobody's job. When I went on Morgan [unclear], I didn't want no job. I had worked thirty-nine years, I had retired, 'cause I've been retired since 1980.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1845.29,1877.15"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Which of the clubs did you enjoy playing in the most?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1879.64,1881.59"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e With Warren Patterson, the guy I just mentioned. Well, we played in a lot of different clubs together, but he was one of the most truest. And a guy named Dell Sunday [phonetic], who lived up on Fulton Avenue, played at a church -- the big church across Fulton Avenue. But those two organ players, I never heard them make a mistake at the piano. They played piano and organ. I was telling Scott, the man I told you about, I said, \"These are the only kind of piano players -- like Coltrane -- these are the piano players that voice people and people who play instruments play with. Because we don't have time for people making mistakes while we're trying to play. Because when you singing, and I'm playing the wrong background, everything you spread [unclear] sounds bad.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1883.93,1923.86"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, how did you get involved in writing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1925.72,1927.22"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I had a feeling. I loved it. I started studying at Berklee [College of Music] in 1960s. You see how old that book is. And you can see that I've got the dates in there someplace. And when I got through Berklee, I got a little slip of paper to show that I had successfully done the core. I don't have harmonic problems. What I need is pianistic problems. I only did get to know this instrument. Then I got nothing but a bunch of books here. [unclear]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1929.59,1964.44"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e And you had mentioned you had studied some composition with A. Jack Thomas. How did you meet Mr. Thomas?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1968.16,1975.21"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I got introduced to him by one of the musicians here in Baltimore. And then after he died, I started to travel to New York. All those books you see on that second shelf over there -- all them tapes up there. I sat down and brought them home and wrote it out -- just like this stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1976.2,1995.87"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. What was Mr. Thomas like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1997.74,1998.61"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e He was a fine man. Now, out of this book -- [unclear] Rayburn Wright, Eastman School of Music. He's got Thad Jones, Sammy Nestico, Bob Brookmeyer, Stan Kenton Band. You know these are quality composers, at all ages. So, I've been bringing in the bounty, now you got scores in here that I can study for analysis. See, all that stuff you see on them pages up there, I have analyzed all this stuff. It took a long time by myself with nobody to tell me. So I had to go through it. Because my friend right now, she said, \"I'm still trying to figure out how somebody can have the kind of patience.\" I was sitting there for days and days and days. And I met with a man when I was much younger -- I met a man named Mr. -- It was the Bristol Harding School of Music [phonetic]. He told me, he said, \"Billy --\" I think he was Kirschbaum [phonetic]. That's German, isn't it? And his name was Mr. Kirschbaum. I would be trying to learn, he'd say, \"Don't worry about it. Just take your time. You'll get it.\" He said, \"If it gets too difficult, get up and go for a walk. Come back. Try the next day.\" Mr. Kirshbaum. I never forgot his name. He was one of the teachers at Bristol Harding School of Music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=1999.992,2088.482"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e So this goes back a ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2090.52,2091.449"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. This goes back to the 1940s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2092.0,2094.03"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. That is great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2095.35,2097.81"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e So I made up my mind, I was going to at least find out what was going on. And right now I've gotten to this stage. This is the last twelve bars of the thing that I'm working on -- this is a blues thing. And so then I find this thing here -- I used to could play these things. This is the thing which fell on the table, but you fold it up over there [unclear]. [Plays blues melody on the piano]. I can play the background, but my hands won't do that no more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2099.16,2127.832"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e So this is the background to it, though. [Playing chords on the piano]. These are the things I've been working on. So I would like to put them on paper now. The middle goes like this. [Playing chords on the piano] Hexall [phonetic] -- he wants to do that. He's a trained pianist, he can do that. I have a hard time understanding that. I told him, \"You've made a mistake when you told the guy you played piano and then you couldn't play when you sit down.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2128.53,2205.01"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e So how close are you to finishing this piece?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2205.87,2207.52"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e It's all finished.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2208.749,2209.02"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2209.41,2209.74"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e All I've got to do now is I've got to orchestrate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2211.383,2212.11"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2214.687,2214.687"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e These are the things I'm working on. So what I need is, I don't need anybody to teach me any harmony -- I probably know more harmony than they do because I've been through twenty-five textbooks. Over the years, I've been through about fifty textbooks. I don't have no harmonic problems. I know about \"sus 4\" [suspended chord] and all that stuff. So this is the thing I'm working on right now -- this blues thing. I wish I could -- I used to could do this thing -- Chopin. [Plays piano] My hands got stiff, and I can't do it anymore, but this thing I'm working on now. [Plays piano] It's a blues thing. [unclear]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2214.687,2252.953"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e When I have time to put it together -- But I'm not fluent like I'd like to be at the piano. So he told me, said, \"Man, you need to start the piano.\" And that's what this book is about. Keyboard harmony. I got these at the same time I was studying at Berklee. That's four books on keyboard harmony. I've spent a lot of time working on that. So I built this shelf other day so I could have more of it close to me. And over years, all these are the books that all the jazz [unclear] -- I was telling my friend, he wanted to learn to play. This all we used to write for the guitar player. If he's a good guitar player, that's all you need to write for him. The chords. We call them blind chords. And I have these books on arranging. And all these books here, all the jazz tunes that you think of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2268.83,2321.11"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e So did you play -- you performed your own arrangements when you were working in the clubs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2323.63,2327.43"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I performed a couple of them. In other words, I'd had so much harmony, I wouldn't see how it really works working for a big band. So that's what I'm interested in now. That's why I was telling you -- I need to get somebody to work with me at the piano that can understand that I'm never going to be able to perform like [Van] Cliburn, because I'm too old for that now. But what I really want is a better knowledge of this keyboard. I don't have to play at hundred miles an hour. I can play it slow, then I write it to play faster. The young artists can play it. [unclear] Take your time. I'm in this book now, starting the keyboard harmony.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2328.37,2366.74"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, tell me a little bit about when you were active in the clubs in the 1950s. What was the difference in the club scene? I mean, you were playing over in East Baltimore, over at the Club Orleans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2368.03,2382.67"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, all over the city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2384.38,2384.728"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e And you hear a lot about what was happening on Pennsylvania Avenue, but less about what was happening in East Baltimore with Club Orleans. And they had some great musicians over there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2384.74,2395.66"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Mostly what was happening -- Pennsylvania Avenue was the main stem. You had a few musicians who migrated from different areas in the city, and some of the club owners would hire them. But most of the action was in West Baltimore because up and down Pennsylvania Avenue. Club Casino, the Comedy Club, the Spot Lounge, the Avenue Bar, Sphinx and another one up there. I can't think of the -- the North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue. [unclear]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2397.34,2433.142"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e The Arch Social Club?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2435.35,2437.45"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right, the Arch Social Club. So, West Baltimore was where it was. There's a lot of clubs around Hopkins -- there's places where they played in East Baltimore. But most of the action was over here in West Baltimore. And when I began to play in some of the White clubs, I was playing out in a club called Gus' Downbeat [phonetic] over here on Eastern Avenue, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2438.205,2460.01"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now what was Gus' like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2460.43,2461.48"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to be frank with you, every time I think about it I laugh, because I used to go out to Druid Hill Park and the guy who had the Park Band -- I can't think of his name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2462.71,2475.16"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Was it Mr. [Edward] Prettyman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2476.199,2476.591"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Scotty would know him because he played with him for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2478.79,2479.808"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's see. There was Mr. Prettyman, there was Mr. [Charles] Gwynn --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2480.14,2482.53"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Gwynn, that's the one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2482.54,2482.81"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2484.22,2484.22"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I was standing out there at Druid Hill Park and the band was playing, and I saw these little White kids dancing. And they were doing one thing, the music was doing something else. So this White lady told me, \"We don't have any rhythm, do we?\" I said \"Nope.\" [Laughter] But Gus' Downbeat -- mostly those were Italian girls. There's something about Italians, the Spanish and the Black people. It's inborn, it's there. The beat is right there. Because she has -- I told you, I said, \"I want you to play. I want you to study all your scales.\" Got a little sign up there that says, \"If you want to get to Carnegie Hall, you've got to [unclear] --\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2484.366,2527.728"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Practice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2531.11,2531.11"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Practice, practice, practice. I said, when you put the food on the fork in the morning at your table, you don't tell your mouth to open, it opens and you put the food in. It has to become part of your thinking. It even has to be inborn or you have to study until you get it. I would think Stan Getz, Charlie Barnet, these guys -- Benny Goodman. These guys began to hang around us until they started to get it. Now, some of them may already have made it [unclear]. But it's hard to explain it, Elizabeth. Because she said, \"I know what you're trying to say.\" I said, \"I can't tell you, it has to be there.\" And she was studying with a couple of guys, and not only that, but I got one student with a guitar -- and that's why I want to start to learn to play the guitar, my lady friend -- she wants to know how I know all this stuff, and don't play the instrument, and I said, \"Well, I've been studying this instrument for all my life, I just don't play it.\" I know more about this instrument than most piano players. And these books on arranging and composing -- and this book -- give you an idea, let you take a quick look at it. That's a terrific composer. New York. He tells you about all the things you want to do for instrumentation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2531.59,2616.9"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah, we're familiar with that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2619.27,2619.66"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e If you look through that book, it's all written up just like this. I've spent all that time -- in fact, them little sheets you see laying on the side, underneath that thing, I take them out, you know what I do with them? I put them in this book. And when I travel, I take them with me. People sitting up looking at me reading. I went to the racetrack in Delaware, and I had my Bible, and I had these books. Hear about the one-arm bandits? I guess the people [thought], \"We got a man out there on the bench, he's sitting on the bench with a Bible,\" and my music books. Just sitting there reading and studying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2627.57,2668.75"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I had a friend, she liked the racetracks. And I had all the stuff in there about handicapping, I had to buy a book on how to handicap horses and all that stuff. But this is what I was interested in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2670.179,2678.58"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Lose less money that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2679.36,2682.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I only play what I could afford. I never play -- I'm a very controlled person because a friend was asking me this morning, \"Do you play the lotto?\" I said, \"About once a month.\" I need some big money, not because I love money. Money is not -- I cannot do what I want to do if I don't have money. For instance, if I got a lot of money, guess what I'd do with it? I'd give it away. I don't need forty million dollars. I worked all my life and I never made forty million dollars. And I got along pretty good. I would like to have enough money to be very comfortable financially. So I don't have to be doing this every time I've spent a dollar, I don't have to be doing this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2682.55,2721.48"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, most of us, we go to do something -- \"I wonder if I can do that. I don't know, I can't do -- \" I think that's a terrific psychological burden on most poor people. I don't want money for money's sake. Only what I would keep out of money -- these are my three blood nieces and nephews, and I got two adopted nieces and nephews. I'd put about a couple million away and give it in a trust fund so their lives could be a little bit better than mine, and keep enough money for me to be very comfortable. The rest of it, I'd give away. In fact, I was thinking about these men over in --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2725.01,2760.468"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e In Iraq?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2764.659,2764.713"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Now fighting over there. What I would do, I'd take maybe about a thousand dollars apiece -- they already got two hundred and fifty thousand men over there now, don't they? I'd take about a million dollars and give each one of them a thousand bucks. This is all money means to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2766.2,2778.98"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, look how much -- look at all the riches that you're surrounded with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2779.34,2783.09"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That's what people tell me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2783.99,2784.084"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, all of these pages of manuscript, all the works that you've written. That's the real treasure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2784.14,2790.5"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e [unclear] She said, \"You need somebody to come up and do something about this.\" See that sheet of paper under there? That's everything that's in this apartment. She wants me to take a picture so I can have her my rental insurance. In case all the -- And she want me to send my nieces pictures what I got in this apartment. So that [if] I'm away from home and all this stuff burn up, something happened, and I'm too ill do deal with it, someone will have those records. In fact, my niece now, my oldest niece, got all my important papers now [unclear].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2791.755,2820.192"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's hope you don't need that for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2824.969,2826.14"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Guess what I said? You and I are always fussing. I said, \"I guess you tell people, 'I wonder who that guy, that guy who's always fussing?'\" I said, \"I only need about twenty more years.\" Me and God have a tough time. I fuss with him all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2826.95,2840.27"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, back to some of the the music scene. You played the Comedy Club, Mr. [Ike] Dixon's Comedy Club?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2841.69,2851.55"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2852.42,2852.42"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e What was Mr. Dixon like? Because he was a musician, too. He had his own band years before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2852.51,2856.47"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I know he was because people told me, but I don't know whether he was ever that good or not. You know, a lot of people, like the fellow I tell you about, [he was with] the Sam Harris band working, he was a trombonist. He was a businessman more than a musician. He got all the work for us. But he had a lot of good young musicians who were young. So I guess some of the guys like Vernon Savage, in charge of the Black union before before it became [Local] 40-543. He couldn't play. I mean, he was a musician. But he wasn't like me. I mean, I have to know what's under this table. I have to know. If you tell me something -- remember I told you my college teachers when I was in college for three years, they couldn't just say anything to me. Why? Why? \"If you can explain it, get this textbook, go down to the library where you study, and you come back and tell me why.\" And I learned a lot like that. It was always like a -- \"You have to tell me why.\" They used to give me a fit. [Laughs] Scotty [unclear], \"I don't know how anybody got along with you.\" I have to know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2858.33,2931.57"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what was it like on the weekends down at --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2934.18,2937.78"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That's what I played mostly, weekends, because I worked during the day. And during the weekends, we would play Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2937.869,2945.803"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e What time did you start on Sunday afternoon?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2948.37,2949.87"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e One club over here off of Edmondson Avenue was called -- We started over there at seven o'clock, I think. No, five o'clock and played till nine. Mostly we played from nine to two, or ten to two. But that's the hours that you used to play. When I was working in the post office, and I was carrying mail, I was going to work at five a.m. in the morning. And I was playing till three o'clock in the morning. I was catching the bus at four o'clock and going to the post office five a.m. And I was going to college full time. People ask me, \"How'd you do that?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2951.19,2988.95"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2989.94,2990.6"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I wanted it. When I see young people standing around -- there's nobody more for the initiative than me. I love my people, Black people. That's not going to get you through this world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=2994.18,3010.83"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Got to use your head.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3013.08,3013.62"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Educate yourself. I said, \"I don't mind you're having your hair braided.\" They're called the corn rows. But if you come in here and tell me you're an accountant, I don't want you to look like a thug off Pennsylvania Avenue. I want you to not frighten me when you come in, because I'm scared of you when I look at you, you don't look like -- You come in with a tie on, a shirt, a starched collar and you're in good order. You look like you have some internal pride. That impresses me. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. I tell young people that. I said, \"Nobody is trying to change your ethnicity, but they want you to look like the person that they're going to put into the job because you have to be out front.\" They don't want you frightening the customers away. I said, \"I think you can dress any kind of way you want -- and I would look to see what their tie is when you go in the place, and you dress like the people that work there. You don't try to inflict yourself on people.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3015.59,3075.65"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e That's good advice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3076.25,3076.64"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e [unclear] He tells me all the time, says, \"Man, you ought to be a teacher.\" I say, \"I don't like people that much.\" [Laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3080.93,3083.21"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3083.57,3083.9"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I do, but I think now, Elizabeth, at this age -- I'll be eighty-three my next birthday. And I think the kids will call me old fuddy-duddy. They won't listen to me. I think my minister at my church, on Saratoga Street, he's about fifty --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3085.19,3107.92"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, which church is this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3108.35,3109.04"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Great Harvest [Baptist Church] on Saratoga Street. This is what I tell the young men in this age bracket. I told them that the Bible is the book. Men in my bracket [unclear] can pass it down to the generation behind us. I said, \"That kid who is eighteen years old, he'll listen to you, because you're probably his father's age.\" I said, \"You pass it on to him.\" If you know anything about the scriptures -- You remember Moses? When God told Moses he wanted to build this ark in his yard? I got a record of it by Bill Cosby. He's fussing with the Lord -- \"I don't want to build no ark in my front yard -- \" [Laughs] So the Lord put all this thunder and crashing and lightning -- \"Okay, okay.\" [Laughs] But God told Moses -- because he had an impediment in his speech, you know? And God told them, \"Don't worry about it. I'm going to pass the information to you. You have a brother who is very fluent. He's very eloquent diction-wise. Pass it to your brother, Aaron. Let him tell the people.\" If you read it in the Bible, you know that. Aaron was the one. Moses passed a lot of knowledge down to Aaron, and Aaron would tell the people. So, this is what I told them, I said, \"I'll let you be my Aaron because I don't want to get involved with these kids -- \" I couldn't teach because I don't think the kids would like me. I'm too tough. I'm a disciplinarian. I've always been. You have to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3110.09,3204.62"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Music demands it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3205.133,3206.87"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember Mr. Thomas, he was telling me a story about a young man that came in to study with him in harmony. Percy Goetschius' [phonetic] book. She's got to do like Percy Goetschius, and he was a smart man. I got his book up on the shelf right now. Mr. Thomas told me, he said, \"The boy was intelligent.\" And he talked to him and his mother sat down and wrote a check for the whole semester. When he got through to interviewing the boy, he say he gave the check back to his mother -- he told me he couldn't teach her son, because during the course of the conversation, her son goes, \"Oh, I think I can know what you know in about six months.\" This man was already almost eighty years old. And you won't tell a professor at Peabody, who's a top-five composer in the world, you're eighteen and you're going to pick up what he knows in six months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3208.25,3256.1"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3257.739,3257.831"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That's an insult. So he gave the check back to his mother and told her he couldn't teach him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3257.889,3261.209"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Thomas had a pretty good sense of humor, but I think that was maybe --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3264.2,3268.819"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I'll tell you something else. I had teachers that would teach me sometimes for a whole semester and I didn't have any money. I dropped out of college halfway through my first year and the professor asked me when I 'm not coming back to school, I told him I didn't have any money. So he looked at me and he said --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3269.117,3291.932"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, where was this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3293.27,3293.75"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e It's in Virginia. He said, \"I want you to come back.\" So he taught me for free. But when I got the money, I paid him the tuition. In fact, when I was in the fifth grade -- some things I remember way back -- I had a teacher whose name was Mrs. Elizabeth M. Davis [phonetic]. I have never forgotten that. She said, \"If you think you're right -- \" This is why I used to give those teachers so much hell when I was in college. \"If you think you're right, don't back down. The teacher will instruct you to go out and find the information. That's when you'll learn. When you do learn, if you know you're wrong, change right away. Do what is right.\" And I never forgot -- this was 1931. All these people are still -- they're like they're sitting right there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3294.62,3350.04"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e That's really good. And that's the greatest tribute that you can pay them, is to remember them, and remember the lessons that they taught you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3352.32,3359.926"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e She told my mother one time, she knew my people were very poor people, but they stayed together until they died. And we had a family. You could not holler with your sister. You could not holler with your brother like these kids you see on TV. The parents of weaklings, that's what I call them. I'm in charge. If I tell you you can't do it, you can't do it. Now, you can go to talk to the judge if you want to, if you want to move it to judge. But I'm in charge. And I don't want you to forget that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3360.07,3389.67"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it sounds like it worked for your parents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3391.32,3392.49"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e It did. I was mad with them all the time. Didn't even like them sometimes. I think I used to tell you, when I was nineteen, I had -- remember I told you, I think my mother -- I asked her when I got to be a young man, \"He always beat me up.\" She said, \"I knew what the Black male was going through. And I didn't want you to get in any trouble that we couldn't handle.\" And I remember one time the police came to my house to pick me up, because some boys had broken into a man's house, a longshoreman that work on the waterfront used to get chips like big silver dowels. Because they worked with different gangs. And they would cash those chips in at the end of the week or whatever time they cash them, and they get their money. And a group of boys broke into this man's house and stole all of his chips, so the police had an idea who did it. So they came to my house to pick me up. So my mother told them, said, \"I don't know that he didn't do it, but I don't think he did. I would like for you to go out and see if you can find the people.\" And she said, \"Because I don't want you take my boy because his father give him a lot of trouble. If his father come home and he's not there, and you got him down there, you're not going to be able to explain to his father. And I don't want my husband to get in trouble.\" That same shotgun that I got in that closet and they never found it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3392.91,3470.673"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e My father would be 122 years old if he was living. He'd be 123 this year. Born 1880. So my mother told him, \"You go on, see if you can find out who did it.\" And they came back a couple of days later and told her, \"No, he wasn't with them.\" We had a very rigid disciplinarian family like Christian people. And I tell you, I think most people in my age bracket were raised in the church. You had to go to church, whether you liked it or not. Then you -- well, it's like the scriptures tell you. Channel that energy in the direction that it's supposed to go. His biological growth gets out in front of his psychological growth long before he's ready for being adult. So when a fifteen-year-old is telling me, \"I'm grown,\" I tell him, \"Bye. Because you can't stay here if you don't follow the rules.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3471.18,3529.37"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e And like you said, sometimes I sit there and look, I have this -- [unclear]. I get so filled up, I just -- you get choked up when someone is having a bad day, you get happy about something, something in eyes, tears running down. And I look up and -- My eyes do water a lot. Girl said, \"Why are you crying?\" I was just looking at my parents from the corner. I keep them up there all the time. I was mad when I was in my teens. I think all teenagers hate their parents. You've been there, so you know, \"You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do the other.\" \"Fuddy-duddies, how come you don't let us do something we want to do?\" They know that it's going to take you years to correct it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3534.11,3583.1"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, they must have been pretty lenient, though, to --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3583.47,3585.629"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3586.13,3586.37"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, first of all, to let you work in the clubs when you were still a teenager, and you were still living at home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3587.0,3591.829"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Elizabeth, let me tell you what used to happen. Girls like Ethel Ennis -- these two girls that I showed you in this picture, Merrill Grey [phonetic] and Lillian Savage [phonetic]. You, as the mother, will tell me as the band owner -- 'cause those girls could sing. They were as good as Ella Fitzgerald or anybody out there. And Merrill Grey was a little thing. I don't know where she got that great big voice from. But her voice sound like she -- like the girl they just had, what's the girl, the big fat girl that sings, Black girl. But she was a little thing. I don't think she weighed 110 pounds at the most. Because I used to date her for a while and after her husband and she separated. And so when her husband went in the Navy -- because he was a bum, that kind of guy -- so her husband came on, and he wanted to get back with her and had to have two children, two beautiful children. So she asked her mother -- she said, \"Mom, what do you think Billy's going to do if I tell him I'm going back to my husband?\" People always knew that I was going to do the right thing. I didn't know it was coming [unclear], I was that young. But she knew my background, my mother. She said, \"You're telling me you want to go back to Jimmy. I'm going to tell you okay. It's gonna hurt him, but he's going to tell you -- \" We were very close.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3593.9,3674.87"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, she wanted to continue -- you're a girl, so you know how girls are. If they like a guy, they want to know if you could sneak around, like the one I told you I was with thirty-one years. You want to go? My life ain't that. She knows me good. I said, \"I'm a one-woman man. I don't have time to be -- I don't need that problem.\" But her mother told her, \"It's going to hurt him, but I think you get it.\" And she came me, said, \"I don't know how [unclear] because she's a lot older than you,\" and she knew that if I had the right views and I just [unclear] for thirty-one years, her son asked me the same question -- \"You're not going to hurt my mother, are you?\" I said, \"No. That's what she wants to do.\" And those two girls and my nephew, they come up and check with me out on there -- he lives here. They were torn up, they were hurt something terrible. Course, she asked me the same thing. And I could see through that -- I think it was her daughter that influenced her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3675.84,3737.16"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Most younger women are not used to men. The man thing. When she used to go down to Virginia -- her husband had a place down near Fredericksburg. And she used to wonder why her husband would go down to the lower part of Virginia to visit his parents. All the men would go over in the woods and talk, and she said he'd never let us come out there. I said, \"Because men are different from women.\" Biologically, Elizabeth, we are different. Sure, we can talk intelligently about anything. But we don't think the same way. The're beginning to learn that now. Men are different from women. I said, \"They don't want your lip stuck into what they got to say.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3740.33,3783.633"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I had a hard time explaining that to her, and I think she influenced her mother about the freedom of the woman. The [unclear] are wrong about a lot of things, but some of what they say is true. That's the thing that men and women are never going to agree on. If you have the intelligence, the reason we don't beat you up, force you to walk around looking like something out of a book, because we know that that's wrong. That's not what he wants. And I think this country has progressed because we have a lot of Christian people in this country. White and Black. I was looking at the thing where these people are fighting the people that are trying to feed [unclear] them now. Saddam Hussein. Because we are good people. I think we're going to win eventually. It's going to take a little while to convert those people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3786.2,3836.51"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know how people can follow. I may not like you -- I was out there with nothing but gangsters all my life. I didn't follow those people. They did what they had to do, I do what I have to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3842.0,3854.0"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e If you were going to give a young musician advice today, what would you tell him? Somebody just starting out. Hit the books?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3855.47,3866.49"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, you hit the books. Stay in them until you understand. Talk to people who have been there. Don't underestimate anybody. Because in fact, I had a professor -- the dumbest-looking man you've ever seen, Elizabeth. Two of them. Mr. Poole [phonetic], and another guy named Mr. Christian [phonetic].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3866.94,3886.014"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e This was back in Norfolk?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3893.47,3894.879"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e In Virginia. Mr. Poole would play with you all during the semester. And he'd fail you at the end of the semester because you didn't get to work. You wanted to go out in the hall and play, go out in the hall and play with you. But he was a terrific mathematician. He didn't need no calculators and all this. When I go to the register [unclear], I gave her twenty dollars. Well, I know the thing is $14.96. I know what I'm supposed to get back. I keep a calculator on me all the time, because it helps me speed up my work. That red book you see right there, that's for one year. I make up my books for one year, every year. And this is a running thing of groceries that I need every day. When I use up what I got in the box [unclear], I keep that in my pocket all the time. And people ask me, \"Have you always been like that?\" I say, \"Yup.\" [Laughs] Discipline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3895.78,3946.913"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Poole was a terrific mathematician. I remember one of my school people, Mr. Brubaker [phonetic], was in charge of the school system in my hometown. He came out to the high school one day and my sister -- one who's dead -- she and I and a couple of other students in the class went up to the board and did some geometry problems that had sixteen steps in them. And the geometry was a tough subject. It's a thinking man's math. Geometry as in capitalism [unclear]. And this White fellow who was running the schools just stood there and looked. [unclear] You know, we got hand-me-downs. All the books that came from the White schools and came to the Black schools -- in the South. See, all these things, young people don't know about. They think people have always liked them. No, they didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=3947.921,4003.52"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e There were some good people. There were people who knew that what was going on was wrong. I don't know if I heard about [unclear] Tuskegee Institute and all the schools in North Carolina and further south -- White people who were putting this big money under the table to these Black professors, to keep the school going. Because they knew that legally you couldn't come to their school. I tell people, \"Don't get mad at people.\" I said, \"What they would do, they had to obey the laws.\" The scriptures tell you that you do not -- And in fact, it was two men, [unclear] seventy-five, seventy-four. The other night, they said the same thing. You do not have to necessarily agree with the way the rules are under the society in which you live. But you should abide by the rules of the principalities in which you live to avoid a lot of unnecessary trouble. And you know, we've been doing that for four hundred years. If not, I'd be in jail a long time ago. Because I always had a pistol. I got rid of my pistols in 1995. This boy had asked me -- [unclear]. I went out and sold my pistols. The man in the pawn shop -- We used to have a pawn shop way down in the lower part of Pennsylvania Avenue. His son got the Pimlico Pawn Shop now, over by Pimlico racetrack. I sold my pistols to the pawn shop. He asked me, \"You're selling all these pistols?\" \"Yup.\" I said, \"I don't think I need them anymore, 'cause I'm tired of people mistreating me and I don't know what I might do.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4005.86,4093.49"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know anybody in my lifetime that I've ever deliberately mistreated. And I remember a guy did me some trouble, around 1948, and I was sitting there with a pistol, I might just pull the trigger. Something told me, \"Let him go, let him go.\" Six months later, he was dead anyway. So if I'd killed him, I'd have been in jail twenty or thirty years. [unclear]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4095.05,4118.45"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Music's a lot better way to spend your life, anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4121.609,4124.499"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. Beside, what Scotty asked me, \"But you don't do anything to anybody.\" Said, \"I don't care if anybody knows. I know I know.\" That's what's important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4124.649,4133.87"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, if you're writing good music, you don't want to keep it under a bushel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4135.31,4139.359"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e I was studying so hard at this piano. I know you'll recognize this one. [Plays Beethoven's Fur Elise] It's been so long since I worked at the piano. So all I need is somebody show me the shortcuts to how I can get down a hurry now, because I don't have a lot of time. I asked him for another eighty years, but he said to me -- [Laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4140.669,4169.63"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e You never can tell, you just may get what you wish for. [Laughter]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4170.29,4173.199"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e But I don't want to be here any longer than I can physically able to take care of [myself].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4174.11,4178.39"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eELIZABETH SCHAAF:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it looks like you're pretty much able to take care of yourself just fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4178.77,4182.38"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWILLIAM HILL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the only thing I've had when I was -- I turned sixty, I had colon cancer. I had an operation. Every other morning, I had to clean my system out. So I tell people, \"You hear my stomach growling, that's my -- \" But I don't have no problem. Dr. [unclear] at Johns Hopkins. I go to see him about every six months. But I haven't had a problem. And I travel -- I think when she and I separated, we had just come back from Bermuda. And I go on cruises, and things like that. Go on the ship [unclear] -- own bathroom. And as long as I've got my own bathroom and things, I have no problem. I'm strong like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4183.129,4234.668"},{"id":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428/transcript/32820/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://streaming.peabody.jhu.edu/collections/1178/collection_resources/44139/file/117428#t=4234.668,4234.668"}]}]}]}